Oh good. A big part of the problem has been the utterly a-historic and illogical claims that Trump is Hitler reincarnate and MAGA a neo-nazi movement, and so, right on cue, Kirk becomes Horst Wessel.

The similarities exist only in the perverted minds of those who've bought into the antifa lunacy. They won't easily surrender comforting lies.

In the meantime, they want all Christians and others on the right (the right and the righteous) to not ensure there are consequences for those who break the laws of the society, let alone the mores of civil society. As with their attitude to debate - its much easier to win if the other side is silenced - their attitude to civil conflicts is that its much easier to impose our views if the other side is constantly physically intimidated. They are distraught that the other side is no longer turning the other cheek.

Laughingly they use their meagre understanding of the Gospels to instruct Christians on what Jesus would have done. Jesus was, or at least is portrayed as, a mild-mannered type. A Kirk-like figure. But he wasn't beyond physical enforcement when required http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

Meanwhile the rise of the conservative youth movement continues apace, spurred on by the atrocities seen in Utah and Charlotte. It is now estimated that millions watched the Kirk memorial and heard his wife's eulogy. Of that, gigantic numbers have chosen for God and MAGA.

In Australia, it was already clear that there was a movement back to Christianity especially among the Gen Z males. There are reports that requests to set up TPUSA chapters in Australian universities (TPAUS?) have exploded.

Of course, on the other side in Australia, the censors will be working overtime to ensure that only approved information is available. Luckily, for the moment, we have libertarian safe-house like X to ensure the truth gets through...for the moment. (and in recent days YouTube has also pledged to abandon wanton censorship), The e-safety commissioner (now there's a misnomer) will have her work cut out.

"guns blazing and all"

There were no guns among the protestors on Jan 6 2021. The only guns were on the other side. The only person shot was a (mostly!!) peaceful protestor.

So completely wrong. And sadly that was the least erroneous part of Paul's lunatic post.

Nothing happened on cue, mhaze.

The Horst Wessel effect isn’t about comparing Kirk to Nazis, it’s about recognising a pattern: the rapid mythologising of a political death before facts are known, to galvanise a cause and vilify opponents. I never suggested Kirk shared Wessel's beliefs, only that the narrative machinery looks strikingly familiar.

Calling that “perverted Antifa lunacy” doesn’t refute the point, either, it just dodges it.

You also equate “the right” with “the righteous,” as if morality maps neatly onto political alignment. That’s not religious conviction, that’s political branding. And it’s precisely this blending of ideology and identity that makes martyr myths so potent and so dangerous.

No one’s arguing against consequences for criminal acts. What’s being questioned is the rhetorical escalation - the rush to treat critics as enemies, to frame a still-unclear tragedy as proof of a cultural war. That’s not justice. It’s narrative opportunism.

Your citation of Jesus flipping tables - to justify “physical enforcement” - is a stretch. That act wasn’t about cultural opponents or political enemies. It was an internal rebuke aimed at corruption within a faith community. And it doesn’t override the central ethic of turning the other cheek, loving your enemies, and rejecting vengeance.

Then there’s the idea that the Kirk memorial sparked “millions choosing for God and MAGA.” That fusion of spirituality and political allegiance should give anyone pause. If your revival depends on a death and a flag, it might not be the Gospel you're spreading.

Finally, calling X a “libertarian safe house” is optimistic at best. A billionaire-owned platform curating speech according to his personal views isn’t liberation, it’s just someone else’s gatekeeping. X has turned Twitter into a platform for unfettered hate speech and misinformation. There's nothing about that to celebrate.

This isn’t about silencing anyone. It’s about being honest when tragedy is co-opted. If your cause is grounded in truth, it shouldn’t need martyr myths to carry it. Nor should you need to misrepresent what others say.

Try responding to what others actually say rather than focusing on how you can spin it.

My point remains.

At the UN today... first they cut off the escalator just as Trump stepped on. Then they cut off the teleprompter as he was about to speak. Big mistake since Trump is a past master at speaking off-script.

And he did.

And what a speech. The European pro-palestinian nations got eviscerated. Then this...

"Now, the righteous task of protecting the nations that they built belongs to each and every one of us. So together, let us uphold our sacred duty to our people and to our citizens. Let us protect their borders, ensure their safety, preserve their cultures, treasures, and traditions, and fight, fight, fight for their precious dreams and their cherished freedoms, and in friendship and really, a beautiful vision. Let us all work together to build a bright, beautiful planet, a planet that we all share, a planet of peace and a world that is richer, better, and more beautiful than ever before. "

Quite the warmonger.</sarc>

Jesus Christ never forgave anyone.

Forgiveness is a remedy for anger and upset.
Better not get sick, then no remedies are needed.

I liked GY's description of Charlie Kirk's assassination as being part of a "second cold civil war" similar to the "second cold war with China". But like the cold war the civil war never ended it just went through new cycles.