Hi AC,

Didn't the Jews reject Jesus as a false prophet, and have him carted off to the Romans to face a horrible execution.

mhaze,

Zito’s piece is moving, but it doesn’t answer the point I raised. It’s anecdote dressed as inevitability. A spontaneous baptism in Pittsburgh or 600 students at “Pitt for Jesus” is powerful imagery, but it’s not the same as a wholesale cultural realignment. Every generation has bursts of religious enthusiasm. What matters is whether they reshape society, or fade like the Jesus Movement of the 70s.

And even if there is a religious revival among some young people, that doesn’t erase decades of social science. We now have robust evidence on minority stress, discrimination, health outcomes, and the protective effects of inclusion. A “revival” that ignores those findings or insists they’re just “leftist shibboleths” isn’t counterculture - it’s regression.

Zito herself concedes that the last 60 years were built on noble advances like civil rights and equal pay. You can’t separate those gains from the broader arc of evidence-based progress without rolling them back too. That’s why I called your pendulum metaphor amnesia. It romanticises a swing “back” without admitting what has to be discarded to make that swing possible.

So yes, people gathering for baptisms is moving. But the hard question remains: are you willing to jettison the research that shows inclusion protects lives, or do you intend to carry that evidence with you into this so-called revival? If it’s the former, then this isn’t a counterculture movement - it’s an evidence-denial movement with a hymnal.

[Cont.]

Discrimination... Well nobody likes being told no, you're not good enough, you're not the right age, gender, ethnicity etc.

Should I not be prevented from going into the opposite sexes toilets?
Should I not be prevented from becoming a firefighter if I'm a 45kg woman or a 145kg obese man neither of which can carry a person from a burning building?
Why should I not be discriminated against?
Should I not be prevented from wearing a pilots uniform and flying passengers around the country when I do not have a pilots licence?
Not all discrimination is bad.

Are 'straight' or 'white' or 'male' not discriminated against by gay, female and ethnicity quotas when the aim is to meet the quotas and not simply hire the best for the job?
- A race to the bottom, for feelings?

I went down to Wellington Point the other day.
Muslims and Indians everywhere, there were some Indians with their family gathered for their lunch, they looked over at me and I smiled and waved pleasantly, welcomingly.
But I can't help thinking that things weren't like this 'multiculturfied' when I roamed the streets as a young teen jumping off the jetty and going out in the boat with my mates 4 decades ago.

minority stress, what if they cause me stress?

If they can fit in without causing problems in the community, I'll tolerate the change.
If they tell me I'm the problem and I need to change to accommodate them, then they can go back to where they came from.
Maybe we can all be kinder, but my attitude's largely a result of their ability to fit in when they come to live in my neighbourhood, and why should anyone feel different?

"minority stress, discrimination, health outcomes"
- imported problems?

Family and friends...
These are the people one should seek support from.

"And even if there is a religious revival among some young people, that doesn’t erase decades of social science. We now have robust evidence on minority stress, discrimination, health outcomes, and the protective effects of inclusion. A 'revival' that ignores those findings or insists they’re just 'leftist shibboleths' isn’t counterculture - it’s regression.

Inclusion. Conflict.
Tradition religious views are family oriented (i.e. kids) and aren't exactly welcoming of gay people.
So when it comes to 'inclusion' you have a fundamental conflict you can't get around there.

Gay people think they're normal.
Religious people would say 'Yeah-nar. sorry, you're not.'

The inclusion people aren't exactly included, and they're offended.
They like to go into Christian bakeries and ask for penis shaped wedding cakes for gay people, just to stir up shite.

"minority stress, discrimination, health outcomes"

Family and friends...
I'm not a minority, or maybe I am now are Aussie born minorities yet?
Sure they might have some stress, is that my fault?

(Fyi, these 2 comments were accidentally posted in the wrong order)

Watching this discussion of "pendulum", the elephant in the room which is being ignored, is human population levels.

So long as this planet is so overpopulated, one can neither return to traditional families nor progress into a liberal lifestyle: in this unprecedented situation we live in, neither is viable and thus we are cornered and can go neither forward nor backward. While through the use of extreme government controls, physical survival is still available, we have entered an unplanned frustrating era of emergency lifestyle where no one is satisfied or happy, only breathing.

Blaming each other is not going to help - only a drastic reduction in population.

Stupid Christian Zionists consumed with helping Israel because they want to bring about the rapture and the end of the world so Jesus returns.

Crazy people.