Donald Trump has by imposing massive tariffs against the rest of the world attacked the foundations of world capitalism. In days trillions of dollars have disappeared from stock markets, investors have lost big time, an economic war has begun. There is now every likelihood that a world recession will develop, forcing millions more into poverty, all thanks to what many experts describe as "madness" on the part of Donald Trump. Is no one safe from the danger that is Trumpism!

A repeat of the bollocks found in the mainstream media.

Donald Trump is trying to give back jobs to the American rust belt, whereas Europe - and Australia - are hanging workers out to dry by handing the industry over to China. Donald Trump came to power promising to fight against the tide of decline, and he gave America’s allies, including Australia, plenty of warning as to what he intended.

If America is not restored to being the richest, most powerful country in the world - which it was until the Democrats got hold of it - it's curtains for an Australia which cannot defend itself alone.

There is no such thing as “free trade”; only a platitude of diplomats while working-class industries collapsed and wealth creation moved offshore.

And it's working. 50 countries begging to meet Trump. Some have even offered to drop all their tariffs against America to continue trading with the US that they have ripping off for years.

"And it's working. 50 countries begging to meet Trump. "

Not true. Its 70 countries. Australia among them. Expect to see Australia suddenly, miraculously, find out that the quarantine measures against US beef aren't required any longer

STOP PRESS.
= = = = = = = = = =

Trump has delayed the tariffs while he negotiates with the 70 countries begging to be allowed to rethink their anti-trade policies.

Well actually 69 countries. China is being hit even harder while the rest of the world move on and seek to reach accommodation with the new America-First regime.

Art of the Deal.

You're right to sound the alarm, Paul.

Trump’s latest tariff stunt isn’t a one-off - it’s part of a consistent pattern that began in his first term and has only worsened now that he's back in office.

His first-term trade war with China hurt American farmers and consumers so badly that the government had to spend billions in damage control. He slapped tariffs on allies under the pretence of "national security" - even when his own Defence department disagreed. And let’s not forget the unpaid-for tax cuts that ballooned the deficit with no structural benefit to the average worker.

These aren’t strategic moves - they’re the actions of someone who simply doesn’t understand how global economics or basic governance actually work, and whose only playbook is bullying.

This is a man who, if you put him on stage right now, couldn’t explain exactly what a tariff is or how they’ve historically worked. He couldn’t tell you the responsibilities of the three branches of government, or what the Attorney General is actually for. And while that might be excused if he were simply a political outsider, it’s harder to forgive when his business track record is just as catastrophic.

The guy is a failure on every level. The only success he ever enjoys is that which can be scraped together temporarily through sheer force of ego and the dark triad of personality traits.

This is ignorance with executive power, and yet, because of the blind loyalty of what is now very clearly a cult following for many, we’re all being dragged along for the ride:

http://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=saved&v=1847346649352037

----

ttbn,

Bold claims, but Trump’s promises don’t match reality. Manufacturing growth slowed during his first term, even before Covid, and his trade war triggered billions in bailouts for the very workers he claimed to protect.

Trump SAYS countries are ‘begging’ - but as usual, there’s a wide gap between diplomacy and the dramatic movie playing in his head.

Trump’s own businesses outsourced jobs and used Chinese steel. Protectionism based on gut instinct isn’t strategy. Destabilising markets with slogans and ego isn’t the answer either.

mhaze,

Ah yes, the return of “Art of the Deal” - where chaos is rebranded as strategy, and every fire is just a clever setup for the photo op of putting it out. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this wasn’t some calculated masterstroke.

Trump abruptly paused the tariffs after markets panicked and internal backlash mounted - not as part of a clever bluff. That’s reaction, not brinkmanship. Even The Times reported that the delay came from economic pressure, not strategic design.

Meanwhile, the US Trade Rep’s office isn’t remotely equipped to handle 70 simultaneous negotiations - it barely has 250 full-time staff. If this really were part of some grand plan, it was launched without the resources to follow through.

And the China escalation? A 125% tariff standoff with no clear endgame - that’s not chess. That’s checkers with a blindfold.

And frankly, even if this were all some deliberate game of brinkmanship, it would be a reckless and deeply cynical tactic - weaponising global economic stability and the livelihoods of working people just to manufacture leverage. That’s not strength. It’s amateurish, short-sighted, and morally bankrupt.

Trump’s claims of countries “begging” are just more of the usual theatrical bluster. If this is your idea of a genius negotiator, I’ve got some Trump-branded water to sell you.

"Meanwhile, the US Trade Rep’s office isn’t remotely equipped to handle 70 simultaneous negotiations "

That's true and indeed they've been making that point to Trump in recent days. The problem is that no one anticipated so many countries caving to Trump's policies so quickly. They're a victim of their own spectacular success.

Of course, there are those who see everything through a TDS lens - anything bad that happens is entirely due to Trump and anything good that happens - like the whole world beating a path to the WhiteHouse to renegotiate their trade deals- is sheer happenstance. These people are beyond logical argument.

mhaze,

It’s a bit early to pull the “TDS” deflection out, isn’t it? You should at least wait until the facts get too uncomfortable for you before dismissing them with accusations of emotional bias.

Pointing out that Trump lit a fire and then paused the damage doesn’t make someone deranged - it makes them observant.

Anyway, if the US Trade Rep’s office is overwhelmed, it’s not because of some “spectacular success.” It’s because Trump lobbed a global economic grenade with no plan to handle the fallout. That’s not strategy - that’s panic control with a PR spin.

And if countries are reaching out, it’s not because they’re basking in admiration - it’s because they’re trying to navigate around a volatile, impulsive leader. People don’t “beat a path” to a partner they trust. They do it to avoid becoming the next target.

50 countries. Then 70 countries. Now 79 countries. All suddenly shocked into taking the US and Trump seriously. The list grows. Except for one - Chyna.

The fact is these nations have been taking from the US for decades and couldn't believe a president was going to take away the feeding trough. Now that they know he's serious they are all madly scrambling to find a way to salvage their trade position with the greatest market on earth.

All those nations which competed with the lumbering Chinese juggernaut to sup at the US table, now see a way forward. Vietnam and India are already rushing to fill the gap that the tariffs on China will leave.

Places like Apple and the major car companies are already looking to repatriate jobs to the US. Canadian companies are looking to relocate across the border. Mexico too. Europe will soon decide that buying fossil fuels from the US rather than Russia isn't such a bad idea after all. (Tell me again how Trump is in Putin's pocket!) And I'd be willing to bet that the Australian quarantine control authorities are currently re-examining the trade barriers against US beef.

Art of the Deal.

mhaze,

Every time you tell this story, the number of countries grows like a fish that gets bigger with each retelling. We’re up to 79 now? At this rate, by next week it’ll be 142 and the UN will be offering Trump a global trade crown.

But let’s come back to reality for a second:
Where’s the list of these countries?
Where’s the evidence of Apple repatriating jobs - not just planning, not “reconsidering,” but actually doing it?
Where’s the confirmation that Canadian and Mexican companies are relocating, or that Australia is changing quarantine laws because of Trump’s tariffs?

Anecdotes aren’t policy, and optimism isn’t economics.

You’re treating any movement as proof of strategy - even when that movement is clearly the result of disruption, not diplomacy. I’ve already explained why this isn’t cause for celebration: a lack of preparation, markets rattled, a Trade Rep office completely unprepared to handle the volume, and countries scrambling to adapt to an unpredictable White House - not one thoughtfully leading the charge.

But instead of engaging with that reality, you’re inflating administration talking points and retroactively framing everything as part of some brilliant master plan - even when Trump’s own team admits they didn’t anticipate the scale of the response or have the infrastructure to manage it.

Call it “Art of the Deal” if you like, but from the outside, it looks more like flailing, rebranding, and declaring victory before the dust has even begun to settle.

If this is your definition of success, I’d genuinely hate to see what failure looks like. Let's face it, though, you're just digging your heels in now.

"Every time you tell this story, the number of countries grows like a fish that gets bigger with each retelling"

The number's growing. I'm just reporting it.

ME: "And I'd be willing to bet that the Australian quarantine control authorities are currently re-examining the trade barriers against US beef."

JD: "Where is the proof."

Comprehension dear boy!!

Its my opinion that a prudent Australian government would be doing this. Some have a lesser opinion of our government.

http://tiny.cc/8j1g001

Only a few can see that this is a short-term pain that will become long-term gain situation !
Let's just look who is scaremongering. The utterly useless investment market crowd ! What great projects are there presently & in the very recent past that have benefitted from "Investment" ?

mhaze,

So, now we’re back to “just reporting the numbers” and “just offering opinions.” Funny - that’s quite a change from the confident declarations and grand predictions just a few posts ago.

You floated dramatic outcomes (Apple repatriating jobs, Canada and Mexico relocating businesses, Australia rethinking quarantine laws), and now that you're being asked for sources, it's all "comprehension" and opinion disclaimers.

And the meme? Cute. But it's not an argument. It's just another way of deflecting from the fact that your narrative can't withstand a little scrutiny.

This was never about denying that countries are responding - it was about pointing out that their responses are to disruption, not diplomacy, and that your framing of it as a brilliant strategy collapses the moment you ask, “What was the plan, and where’s the evidence it worked?”

You can keep changing the tone and shifting the goalposts, but don’t confuse that with winning the argument.

----

Indyvidual,

It's easy to declare “short-term pain, long-term gain” - but harder to point to an actual plan behind the pain or measurable indicators of the supposed gain.

What we’re seeing isn’t strategic restructuring, it’s disruption without a roadmap - the brain fart of an impulsive, bad-tempered man-child who has no idea what he's doing. The market turmoil isn’t just some elite tantrum, it reflects real-world impacts on businesses, consumers, and governments trying to plan against volatility.

And the “utterly useless investment crowd”? That’s the same mechanism funding hospitals, infrastructure, and pension systems. When they panic, it's not just bankers who feel it - it's everyone with a retirement plan or a job tied to public spending.

If you’re going to defend the pain, it helps to show where the gain is - not just promise it’s somewhere over the horizon.

Trumpsters,

Your crazy folk hero The Dangerous Doctor Donald, has been shown to be a complete economic idiot! The 90 day nonsense demonstrates what a dangerous fool this bloke is! YOU are the ones suffering from "Trump Delusional Syndrome", delusional as you all are.

GOOD ON CHINA, for standing up to the economic idiot in the Whitehouse, he should be in the Nuthouse!

Pretty funny JD.

The US manufacturing industry has been systematically gutted over the past quarter century with the resultant impoverishment of millions of blue collar workers. Trump's tariff policies and America First policies are designed to begin the process of rectifying these disasters. Yet here's silly old JD asserting that, since these decades old problems haven't been resolved in a few weeks, Trump's policies are an utter failure. Laughable.

“just reporting the numbers”

Yes JD, I get that you'd prefer the numbers weren't reported since they invalidate your assertions. Facts tend to do that. Bummer eh!
BTW its now said the number of countries who are begging the Washington to begin negotiations on trade has increased to 83.

But Chyna is hanging in there and Paul is thrilled with that.

____________________________________________________________________

Also slightly OT.... US March inflation figures are out....2.4% which is lowest since the lockdown induced crash. Core inflation below 3%. Chalmers looks on with envy.

mhaze,

I never said Trump’s policies had “utterly failed” - I said that the guy is a failure on every level (but that doesn't mean he can't accidentally succeed.)

What I DID do is point out that you were calling chaos strategy, declaring victory before outcomes exist, and refusing to acknowledge the glaring lack of planning behind it all.

You keep pretending critics expect instant results. They don’t. They expect a plan, prepared infrastructure, and measurable indicators that what’s happening is more than disruption dressed up as genius.

You floated bold claims: mass job repatriation, business relocations, global trade realignments. When asked for evidence, it all melted into “just opinions.” That’s not strength - it’s storytelling.

And now we’re up to 83 countries “begging”? Incredible how the number keeps climbing, yet there’s still no public list, no press releases, no documentation - just internal spin and repetition.

As for inflation - yes, Trump has claimed credit for bringing it down, but the policies you’re praising (especially tariffs) tend to increase prices in the short term. If you want to argue 2.4% inflation proves the success of his economic strategy, you’ll need to show the connection - not just toss in a good number and hope it sticks emotionally to everything else.

If Trump wants credit for addressing deindustrialisation, he needs more than slogans, stunts, and fan fiction. Until then, loud cheerleading doesn’t become smart policy just because it echoes well.

"but that doesn't mean he can't accidentally succeed."

Like I said, for the TDS crowd everything that happens that can be represented as bad is entirely due to Trump and anything good that happens is mere luck. And they think they're being logical and adult.

"You keep pretending critics expect instant results. "
Not critics.. just you. You're the one calling for evidence that jobs were returning.

" it all melted into “just opinions.” "

No. Just my opining that a prudent Australian government would be re-examining its biosecurity policies as regards US beef. Sorry that went over your head. Was it the word 'prudent' that confused you?

Why would Australia be importing beef from anywhere?
We produce more then we need and export most of our beef.
Mhazie seems to want rabies, mad cow disease, pink slime and chlorinated meat to be on our tables. No thanks. The seppos can keep their third rate meat and we can and should strengthen our bio security measures before some traitor decides to help the orange fuhrer "level the playing field" by introducing diseases like rabies, foot and mouth or BSE.

There is no evidence of this so called 60, 70, 95, 100 countries begging the trumpsters for concessions. Why would they? Just wait a few days for the screwball to change his tiny little mind. Again.

Everything they say is a lie and a grift to con the stupid, gullible, hateful, petrified maga morons who dont care if the lose everything as long as "chyna" and blacks and gays and women and muslims et al get mistreated and persecuted in the name of "freedum".

mhaze,

Nice try, but spinning criticism as “TDS” whenever the facts don’t align with your narrative isn’t the flex you think it is - It’s obvious deflection.

You framed countries as “begging,” major corporations as “repatriating,” and governments as scrambling to adjust their trade policies. When asked for evidence, it turned into “just reporting the numbers” and “just my opinion.” That’s not an accusation - that’s a description of what happened.

You’re now pretending I demanded instant results when I clearly asked for any supporting data behind your confident claims. You made declarations - not me. Asking you to back them up isn’t unreasonable, it’s basic discussion.

And if you’re going to float hypotheticals like “I bet the Australian government is reconsidering beef imports,” fine - but don’t act shocked when someone assumes you were implying it was already happening. You didn’t frame it as speculation - you presented it in a string of definitive outcomes from Trump’s success. That’s on you, not the reader.

If you're done with substance and just want to toss around snark, that's your call.

But if you want to keep playing the part of the informed contrarian around here, then you'll need to start engaging with what others are actually saying rather than focusing on how you can spin it to save face after your arguments have run dry and you've dug yourself into a hole.

Trumpster,

"US March inflation figures are out....2.4%", Jimmy Charming eat your heart out, Australia's March quarters inflation rate was a staggering 2.4%....When Mini-Me Trump, the Dud Dutton, left office the Noalition had inflation running at a very modest 6.1% with almost a trillion dollars of debt, and noting to show for it. Trumpster you are a classic!

Poor mikk seems to be seeing germs and diseases at every turn. I wonder how the US people survive eating all this diseased meat!! The less said about mikk's paranoia the better.

JD....

"You framed countries as “begging,” major corporations as “repatriating,” and governments as scrambling to adjust their trade policies."

Yes. They are all racing to make accommodation to the US. Israel has already done so. Europe is talking about importing more US LPG to offset the trade deficit. Vietnam is sending a delegation. Japan and Korea also. I'm not sure about the really important countries like Ireland, Portugal and Chile!!

Paul....

"Australia's March quarters inflation rate was a staggering 2.4%"

My comment was referring to the core inflation rate which is why I made the comment after referring to the core inflation rate. Lost you yet? The RBA works off the core rate rather than the headline rate which can be and is manipulated by government to suckering in the gullible....anyone we know? Australia's core rate is determinedly fixed in the mid 3% rate whereas the US is now below 3% which is what our RBA wants to see. Thus the comment about Chalmers being envious.

Trumpster,

We should call you Chubby Checker, the way you are always doing the twist.

"In March 2025, the US Consumer Price Index (CPI) decreased 0.1% on a seasonally adjusted basis, and rose 2.4% over the last 12 months. Core inflation, excluding food and energy, increased 0.1% in March and was up 2.8% over the year."

US does not measure inflation in the same way as Australia, using a seasonally adjusted figure, the March 2025 figure 2.4%. Australia's comparable figure was also 2.4% last December 2024, 3 months ahead of America, as our March quarter has not been released yet. Australia finished 2024 with underlying inflation of 3.2% America had core inflation at the end of 2024 of 3.24%. Trumpster please keep up, your understanding is on a par with that of your folk hero Dangerous Doctor Donald. Is it true you learned everything you know about everything whilst playing in the sand pit at kindy? Sure seems that way.

What you wont say is how your folk hero has put 7 million Americans out of work, and with his wako policies that number will grow by the another 7 million in no time.

mhaze,

This is a familiar pattern: flood the thread with vague country names, imply momentum, and lean on mockery to deflect from the fact that none of it actually substantiates your earlier claims.

Saying “Europe is talking” or “Vietnam is sending a delegation” isn’t the slam dunk you seem to think it is. That’s diplomacy - not desperation. Countries engage, visit, discuss - especially when trade conditions shift. That doesn’t mean they’re “begging,” “racing,” or “scrambling” to appease Trump. It means they’re doing what states normally do: protecting their own interests.

You’re also leaning on a familiar rhetorical trick - stacking up gestures toward credibility (lists of countries, vague references to “talks”) while tossing in mockery (“really important countries like Ireland, Portugal and Chile”) to dismiss the tone and duck the substance.

If you want to argue that this is all vindication for Trump’s chaotic rollout, you’ll need more than implication. Show the actual policy reversals. Show the structural changes. Show anything that ties the current diplomatic motion directly to long-term economic gain.

Because right now, what you’re offering isn’t a geopolitical masterstroke - it’s just pageantry stitched together after the fact to make the disruption look deliberate.

More an art of theatre than a deal, I guess you could say.

Paul takes the bait. Paul always takes the bait.

All I said was that the US's inflation rate is what the Australian government is aiming for and therefore they'd envy it. I didn't credit Trump. I didn't blame the ALP. I just observed a trend that I found interesting especially when so many were confidently predicting worsening US inflation.

But Paul, dowsed in his TDS leapt into the fray to defend his ALP and attack Trump.

The inflation rate in the US isn't due to Trump. His policies won't have any real effect, good or bad, for at least a year although his energy policies might be move quicker than that. Equally, even if Paul's fictitious claim that 7 million people have been made unemployed under Trump was real (did I mention its fictitious) there is no way Trump's policies caused that level of unemployment.

Way back before the last election in Australia, I pointed out that the next government (whoever it was) faced the worst economic outlook seen for some time, that it shouldn't be blamed for the consequences of that, and that nonetheless it would eventually be so blamed. Paul was good with the idea of not blaming the ALP for things beyond its control but now wants to blame Trump for things beyond his control. When ideology colours your understanding of the truth, you have no credibility.

Just on the ALP, as I've said since 2022, they weren't to blame for the economic problems the nation faces - or at lest they are no more to blame than the opposition. But that was three years ago and our problems can now be laid at their doorstep given that they've done so little to alleviate the problems they inherited.

Try looking at it like this JD. One's opinion about any particular situation or about assessing the near-term future, ought to be based on past experience and knowledge built up over decades of observation and assessment.

When I predicted in December 2023 that Biden wouldn't run for president in November 2024, it wasn't based on the sort of hard facts that you seem to think are needed to form any opinion. It was based on assessment of the situation run through decades old experience filters.

Equally, when I say that the Australian government is almost certainly investigating its quarantine practices to see if they remain valid and/or offer any wiggle room in negotiations with the US, its not based on hard facts but on experience of the past as to how government works.

Frankly I find it incredible that you think the Australian government would be so negligent as to not re-examine its anti-US beef procedures. That you think the government would sit back slack-jawed and not even consider whether to reassess its position shows, in my view, a significant misunderstanding of how these things work as well as a significant contempt for the abilities of the government.

I'm no fan of the current leadership, but even I credit them enough to think that they would at least examine all possible options. Thinking they wouldn't seems to me to be profoundly naive about the world.

That's not to say that they will cave to the US on these quarantine issues, just they they'd want to know all their options. Common-sense 101.

As I said earlier..."Its my opinion that a prudent Australian government would be doing this. Some have a lesser opinion of our government."

Hi Trumpster "Lets twist again, like we did last summer..."

"The inflation rate in the US isn't due to Trump." Well, not yet, with his almighty tariffs it certainly will be.

"I didn't blame the ALP. I just observed a trend" is that so. The trend on inflation in Australia is down, when the Noaltion got booted it was at 6.1%, today its at 2.4%, a remarkable recovery. The Noalition also ran up a debt of almost a trillion dollars. Unemployment is satisfactory and interest rates are coming down. I don't see any reason to sack Labor after one term. YOU never want a Labor government, being a rusted on Tory as you are.

BTW I'm not giving my first preference to the ALP, that's true, that's reserved for your folk hero the Un-Australian Fat Clive, that's not true!

That’s quite a shift in tone, mhaze.

When you were confidently describing countries as “begging,” corporations as “repatriating,” and governments as “racing” to adjust their policies, it didn’t sound like the musings of a cautious observer drawing on decades of subtle inference. It sounded like declarations of fact - bold ones, framed to impress.

Now that those claims have been questioned, suddenly we’re back in the safe waters of “opinion,” “experience,” and “common sense.” Convenient.

I don’t think it’s naive to ask for evidence when someone presents sweeping claims as outcomes. I think it’s responsible. And I also don’t think it’s “contempt” for government to point out that no such reassessment has been announced, discussed, or hinted at by officials - especially when the original claim wasn’t phrased as a hypothetical, but listed alongside other supposed wins in a triumphant parade of Trumpian success.

This isn’t about whether reassessment might be happening - it’s about the way you frame speculation as evidence until someone asks for receipts. That pattern’s clear.

You’re welcome to hold and share your views, of course. But don’t present pageantry as policy, or opinion as outcome, and then act indignant when someone notices the difference.

Again JD you misconstrue and then demand I answer for your misunderstandings.

Prudence and common-sense suggests that Australia will be re-examining its beef quarantine policies. Its naivety in the extreme to think otherwise. Yet there you are.

As to the rest, I've not retreated from the view that governments around the world are racing to readjust their trade policies to suit the new reality. You might not like the characterisation of that as "begging" for meetings, but that's another issue. And you might not think that US companies are talking about relocation back to the continental US, but they are. Given your lack of knowledge on this I'll relax my rules about spoon feeding....

* "Apple has been exploring ways to reduce reliance on overseas manufacturing, particularly in China, by investing in U.S.-based production. The company announced a $500 billion investment in U.S. manufacturing and infrastructure, which includes expanding domestic production capabilities."

* General Motors has announced plans to increase hiring and production in Fort Wayne, Indiana, signalling a move to bring thousands of jobs back to the U.S.

* Lear Corporation: Lear’s CEO, Ray Scott, has indicated the company is considering shifting some production back to the U.S. to mitigate tariff-related pressures.

And many many more.

And following up on the misunderstanding here, its the height of naivety to think that the US administration hasn't thought this through. They didn't just wake up last week and think.. oh let's up-end the world trade system. Trump's been talking about tariffs since the 1990s. Many of his advises likewise. Its been a hard policy since Trump descended the golden escalators. Places like the Heritage Foundation have been working on it for years.

Perhaps they were more than a little surprised at the rapidity of governments around the world caving to the new regime, but not at the outcome.

I get that you'll never buy that and won't understand the ramifications of America First. But Trump is fighting for his people and his people alone.

mhaze,

This is what you do every time I challenge your narrative: fall back on a handful of selective examples, strip away the context, and present speculation, planning, or diplomatic engagement as if it’s confirmation of some masterstroke.

And let's not forget: pretending that I've misconstrued something you've said.

Let's recap:

You listed Australian beef alongside Apple repatriating jobs, Canada and Mexico relocating companies, and Europe buying US fossil fuels as part of a chain of real-world consequences of Trump’s tariff policies. There was no framing, no “in my opinion,” no hedging. It was part of your overarching claim that the world is scrambling to accommodate Trump.

Only after being asked for evidence did it shift into a hypothetical based on what you think a “prudent government” would be doing. That’s not a misunderstanding on my part - that’s you retreating from your bold framing after it was scrutinised.

I never claimed that countries don’t talk or assess options, or that governments don’t run internal reviews. What I challenged was your framing - presenting all these things as proof that Trump’s chaotic, reactive tariff policy is not just working, but inspiring a global stampede of admiration and “begging.” And when asked for evidence, the certainty suddenly became “just my opinion.”

Now you’re back with a new round of talking points. But where’s the data showing or predicting actual job movement? How much is happening, where, and when? What part of it is tied directly to tariffs, and how much of it predates them? You’re presenting the headlines as the outcomes.

Take Apple, for example:

This isn’t the 1950s - “opening a factory” in tech often means automation, not mass employment. That single facility you mentioned will reportedly employ less than 1000 workers. For perspective, Apple has over 160,000 employees worldwide - the vast majority of which are not in US manufacturing.

And claiming that “Trump is fighting for his people and his people alone” is mere branding, not analysis.

You’re free to admire the story. Just don’t confuse it with the reality it’s trying to overwrite.

So is it misconstruing what I've said or just reimagining what I've said so that your original errors are papered over.

I never NEVER talked about what a prudent government would do EXCEPT as regards what I assume our prudent government would be doing vis a vis beef. I didn't link those actions with what Apple's doing or what GM are doing, or what the Europeans, or Portuguese are doing. That's all in your imagination.

Every nation, every US company, every large international company for that matter (Hyundai are in discussions about ship building) will have a different approach to the new regime. Our approach will likely revolve around re-examining our beef policies. US car makers will be looking to what part of their process can be done in the US. Europe is looking to even up the trade imbalance in other ways by buying more US stuff. etc etc etc

But you conflated all that into one big narrative with one outcome, one cause one thought-process. I can't help that your over-simplifications lead you down the garden path.

"is mere branding, not analysis."

If you say so! Mere assertion isn't convincing though. But I think you don't really know what 'analysis' is

mhaze,

Here we go again: yesterday’s sweeping claim become today’s “nuanced collage of unrelated examples.”

You placed Apple repatriating jobs, Mexico and Canada relocating businesses, Europe buying fossil fuels, and Australia rethinking quarantine laws all within the same paragraph, under the clear implication that they were ripple effects of Trump’s tariffs. That wasn’t framed as a mosaic - it was a cause-and-effect showcase.

Only after pushback did the certainty start to splinter: suddenly “begging” became “engaging,” definitive outcomes became “hypotheticals,” and your confidence turned into condescension towards me becuase I dared to take your claims at face value.

You’re right that countries and companies will respond in different ways. But if you want to hold all those responses up as validation of Trump’s “Art of the Deal,” then yes - it’s on you to show more than a string of headlines and assumptions. That’s the difference between analysis and spin.

And let’s be honest - you’ve been leaning hard on spin for a while now.

Good on yah John Daysh, absolutely trashed the sycophantic Trumpster's argument on this. In the face of a spectacular crash on Wall St and plummeting consumer confidence in US, The Orange Man was forced to retreat with his tariff nonsense, looking the fool, with his pants on fire!

The US is now "begging" China for a trade deal. Trump is "racing" to do a deal with Beijing. We should thank China as the one country that stood up to Trumps bullyboy tactics, and gave the Orange Man a black eye with his BS!

" suddenly “begging” became “engaging,”"

I never used the word 'engaging'. You did.

Do you misconstrue, misunderstand or fabricate. At this point I can't tell.

But I can now prove you're wrong..... Paul agrees with you.

Nice try, mhaze - but this is just another classic move of yours: zero in on a paraphrase, pretend it’s a misquote, and use that as cover to avoid the actual point.

Yes, I used the word “engaging” - to contrast your dramatic language (“begging,” “scrambling,” “racing”) with what most of those countries are actually doing: standard diplomacy. That’s not fabrication. That’s paraphrasing the tone - a tone you very clearly set.

And just to be clear, I added the inverted commas during a proof-read after realising that without them, the sentence could read as if I were saying “begging” became interesting rather than just being recharacterised. That’s called clarity - not deception.

This isn’t the first time you’ve played the “I never used that exact word!” card when cornered. The substance of what you implied remains unchanged, regardless of which synonyms you want to disown after the fact.

As for “Paul agrees with you”… if that’s your big discredit, it’s doing more for my position than yours.

"This isn’t the first time you’ve played the “I never used that exact word!” card when cornered. "

You think I'm cornered? That's cute. But you're right. Its not the first time I've pointed out that I didn't use a particular word. You can be sure that every time you try to sneak in an attempted verballing of me, I'll call you out for your (deliberate?) deception. You tried to say that I'd backtracked from my original position by fabricating a quote from me, a quote I didn't use and never implied. "Desperate times breed desperate measures"... NB Shakespeare actually said that. See the difference?

You’re not cornered, mhaze?

Then maybe start engaging with what I’ve actually said - rather than zeroing in on paraphrased language so you can pretend the conversation is about “verballing” rather than your own rhetorical retreat.

Let’s be clear: I didn’t fabricate a quote. I paraphrased the tone of your post - a tone you established by describing countries as “begging,” companies as “racing,” and governments as “scrambling.” That’s not deception. That’s analysis. And frankly, if paraphrasing someone’s tone is enough to throw you off, that says more about the fragility of your framing than anything I’ve written.

This faux-indignation about “quote fabrication” is theatre - the same kind that tries to repackage bold, tidy narratives as loose collections of maybe-this-maybe-that whenever the scrutiny gets too close.

You say you’ll “call me out” every time I do it? Good. And I’ll be here each time, calmly pulling the curtain back when the spin starts to wobble.

Paranoia as you put it mhazie is why we dont have nasty diseases in Australia. You support the seppos above your fellow Australians. Traitor.

I see orange god has dropped even more tariffs, this time on phones and electronics. hahahahahaha Der furher cant even go a few days without changing its tiny little mind. Whats next? Put them back so he can crash the market again and make some more money for him and his cronies.

Anyone who thinks this fool knows what he is doing is not even looking they are deliberately blind and deserve scorn and condemnation.

Here's how it went. I said nations were begging to negotiate with Trump. I also characterised it as racing to negotiate and scrambling to negotiate.
JD didn't like that characterisation and instead preferred to think of them a engaging with Trump. That's fine. If he sees it that way, so be it. I didn't dispute his characterisation, just rejected it as accurate.

Then somehow a day later JD convinced himself that I'd backtracked from thinking nations were begging to thinking nations were merely engaging and asserted that to be the case.

So I bounced him on his duplicity and he's be floundering ever since to try to find a form of words that would salvage a modicum of pride. Unfortunately he's failed.

_____________________________________________________________

Mikk thinks US beef is full of all sorts of diseases and that its traitorous to bring it to Australia. Of course, when I point out the illogic of that given that US people aren't dropping left and right from these supposed diseases, he ignores it...or misunderstands it. Who can tell.

No one is saying we should bring in diseased meat. But if it is indeed diseased then that needs to be proven otherwise the impression that its merely a trade barrier designed to protect local producers is confirmed. The original bans were bought in to stop the spread of BSE to Australia when it was rampant in the US in 2002. The U.S. is classified as having "negligible risk" for BSE by the World Organisation for Animal Health.

Just a quick clarification for the audience, since mhaze has now shifted into narrating the debate:

Yes, he described nations as “begging,” “scrambling,” and “racing” to negotiate with Trump - all in one post:

“50 countries. Then 70 countries. Now 79 countries. All suddenly shocked into taking the US and Trump seriously… racing to make accommodation… scrambling to find a way to salvage their trade position…”
(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10583#369685)

He then listed examples like Apple repatriating jobs, Canada and Mexico relocating businesses, Europe buying US fossil fuels, and Australia rethinking beef quarantine laws - all as part of the same triumphant parade of consequences under Trump’s leadership.

In response, I pushed back on that narrative - not by claiming he literally used the word “engaging,” but by contrasting his theatrical framing with what these actions more likely represent: routine diplomacy, strategic reassessment, and self-interest. I paraphrased that as “engaging”:

“Countries engage, visit, discuss - especially when trade conditions shift.”
(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10583#369705)

I later used quotes around “engaging” not to suggest it was mhaze’s word, but to differentiate my characterisation of the same events from his.

What happened next is familiar. The tone of mhaze’s posts shifted. Suddenly we weren’t looking at a domino effect of Trumpian brilliance, but a list of disconnected national responses. His claim about Australian beef became:

“[It’s] my opinion that a prudent Australian government would be doing this.”
(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10583#369688)

Gone was the sweeping certainty. In its place: hedged speculation framed as common-sense realism.

Now he’s accusing me of “verballing” him - even though I clarified that I was paraphrasing his tone, not quoting his words. He’s reframing my paraphrase as fabrication in order to reframe the entire debate in hindsight.

But anyone who’s been following knows the real shift: bold declarations collapsed under scrutiny, and what’s followed has been a steady stream of walk-backs disguised as nuance.

“If you have to keep summarising the exchange in increasingly creative ways to feel like you won, you probably didn’t.” (Anon)

Anyway, I apologise for my friend's behaviour. I hope it wasn't too awkward or confronting to be suddenly addressed like that.

Trumpster, why has The Orange Man backflipped on Chinese electronics entering the US, China never "begged" Trump, in fact just the opposite, the brave Chinese stood up to the bully, and gave him a black eye. It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that a US made I-Phone would cost American consumers $3,000 each, just as other electronic items would increase three or four fold in price. What about the toasters?

John Daysh, well done in showing the Trumpster, mhaze, for what he is, totally clueless and out of touch, just like his folk hero Donald.

"No one is saying we should bring in diseased meat" Ah, you are the someone, you intermated that to appease Trump, Australia should drop its strict quarantine laws an allow diseased American beef to enter the country. Australia is well aware of the biosecurity risks of American beef, that's why we don't let it in! End of story.

Squirm all you want JD but the evidence is in this very thread.

"Only after pushback did the certainty start to splinter: suddenly “begging” became “engaging,”.

You straight up said I backtracked on the characterisation of the reactions of governments from begging to engaging. This, apparently, caused by the withering logic of your attack (giggle!) But I didn't use the word 'engaging' or any other even remotely like it. But you did and likely got confused about who said what and now can't bring yourself to admit it. Well so be it. I'll keep that in mind for future reference.

____________________________________________________________

Meanwhile, "dozens of countries are pounding on the door for a tariff deal" according to National Economic Council Director Kevin Hasset. "There are a heck of a lot of concessions on the table,".

____________________________________________________________

Isn't it rather interesting, the way facts get crowded out by inane patriotic fervour. Paul's there waving the flag again, demanding Australians be protected from all that diseased US beef. What diseased US beef? Well none can be found but what have the facts got to do with it when unthinking jingoism meets unthinking TDS

mhaze,

Thanks for confirming once again that your only way out is to focus on a word I clearly used to characterise the tone of your claims - not to quote you. I never said you used the word “engaging”. What I said was:

“Only after pushback did the certainty start to splinter: suddenly ‘begging’ became ‘engaging.’”

That’s a rhetorical contrast - not an attribution. And it was immediately obvious to anyone reading in context, especially since I followed it with a clarification days ago.

But instead of addressing the points I raised about how your narrative shifted - from definitive global trends to “different countries reacting differently” - you’ve spent multiple posts trying to convince everyone I was confused by my own paraphrasing. That’s not debate. That’s misdirection.

As for Kevin Hassett’s “dozens of countries” quote - I’m sure many countries are reaching out. That’s what countries do when trade policy becomes unpredictable. But being in contact isn’t the same as “begging,” and vague quotes from administration officials don’t suddenly justify the list of outcomes you implied.

And regarding Paul - if you think public health regulations exist only as “jingoism,” that might say more about your views than his.

Anyway, if the best you can offer in the face of all this is repeated outrage over a word I used, I think the audience can see who’s really squirming.

Its not about the word you used but the false use of a word to try to make a false claim that I had backtracked on my original, correct, point. That you can't admit it, (I'm sure you see it) is revealing. You should note that all this was done at your initiation. I made the original point that nations were begging for trade talks and you made that characterisation a point of issue. You, not I. Only now that its all gone pear shaped for you do you suddenly decide (beg!!) that we drop it and move to other matters.

As to the meat issue, no one is suggesting its OK to bring in diseased meat. I made that point earlier and quoted from Dutton making that same point. But there is good indications that, while the original ban might have been valid back in 2003, that's no longer the case and that, as the Americans claim, its simply a trade barrier measure dressed up as quarantine. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6750ZM/

The assertion that US meat is so diseased that it needs to be banned is absurd. I expect the ban to be lifted after the election.

mhaze,

I’m happy to let the readers you're so fixated on decide for themselves whether I claimed you used the word “engaging”, or whether I clearly used it to describe the tone of your claims - which I’ve now explained three separate times. At this point, your audience is smart enough to distinguish between a misquote and a paraphrase.

They also don’t have the memory of goldfish - clearly you’re hoping they do.

And no, I’m not “begging to drop it.” The longer you flog this furphy, the worse it reflects on you - and frankly, the easier my job gets. I’m simply recognising that the conversation stopped being about tariffs and started being about one word in a sentence I wrote days ago. I’ve clarified. You’ve demanded I walk it back. I haven’t - because I don’t need to.

As and aside: Isn't it funny how your opponents only ever seem to “misquote” or “misconstrue” you when you’re the one running out of arguments? I mean, it's not exactly the moment you'd expect them to start getting desperate now, is it?

What’s more telling is how much effort you’ve spent trying to reframe this as some kind of moral failing on my part, while skimming past the substance of your original claims about Trump’s global impact. That shift speaks volumes.

As for the meat issue - you’re welcome to argue it’s a non-scientific trade barrier. That’s a separate discussion. But it’s a far cry from your earlier suggestion that Australia is already re-examining its position in response to Trump’s pressure. That’s been the pattern all along: speculation presented as outcome… until questioned.

If you’re ready to return to the actual topic of Trump’s trade policies, I’m happy to engage. Otherwise, I’m happy to see how long you managing perception to avoid debating facts.

"But it’s a far cry from your earlier suggestion that Australia is already re-examining its position in response to Trump’s pressure."

I never said Australia IS re-examining its beef policy only that it would be prudent to do so and given that I expect the government is prudent then its likely to be doing so. But you already knew that, didn't you?

Its hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone who continually misunderstands or mis-characterises your views and then pats themselves on the back for having discredited views you never held.

Yes, mhaze, we've seen this all before.

The part where you claim you didn’t say what you clearly implied, and accuse your opponent of mischaracterising “views you never held.”

You wrote:

“I'd be willing to bet that the Australian quarantine control authorities are currently re-examining the trade barriers against US beef.”
(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10583#369688)

That’s not “I think it would be prudent,” or “maybe they should.” You said you’d bet that it is happening. That’s a statement of belief about the present - presented, I might add, alongside claims about Apple repatriating jobs, Canada and Mexico relocating businesses, and Europe buying US fossil fuels.

Only after being asked for evidence did it shift to:

“Just my opining that a prudent Australian government would be re-examining its biosecurity policies as regards US beef”
(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10583#369696)

That’s not clarification. That’s a rewrite. You knew this - which is why you immediately followed it up with a deflection aimed at undermining my credibility:

"Sorry that went over your head. Was it the word 'prudent' that confused you?"
(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10583#369696)

This routine - make a confident claim, double down on it, then later insist it was misunderstood all along - has come up several times now in this thread alone.

If you’re genuinely interested in an intelligent conversation, try holding your position long enough for it to be tested before reshaping it into something safer.

At this point, however, I’m starting to think the only thing you’re consistent about is insisting on being misquoted.

Pick one as a real threat to Australia:

A. US tariffs
B. Communist China

Trumpster,

Wrong again, you said; "What diseased US beef? Well none can be found" Not so;

"In May 2023, a case of atypical Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), also known as mad cow disease, was detected in a beef cow at a slaughter plant in South Carolina."

"US animal health officials, have identified 6 BSE (mad cow disease) cases in cows in the United States. One was imported from Canada and is believed to have been infected there. The others were diagnosed with atypical BSE."

.

Dear Paul 1405,

.

Though significant government taxes can be derived from tariffs, they increase prices and reduce production, resulting in decreased revenue for commerce and industry. While most economists agree that tariffs have a negative impact on the economy, quantifying the full economic impact in advance is rife with incertitude and no simple task.

Trump’s tergiversation only complicates matters even more, adding to the confusion, clouding the future, and reducing confidence, constraining the economic actors to adopt a more prudent wait-and-see attitude.

The overall foreseeable result of the tariffs is nevertheless a diminution of GDP.

.

"The part where you claim you didn’t say what you clearly implied"

Oh I "implied" it. ie I didn't say it. Checkmate.

I am assured this could never happen because, you know, Orange Man Bad and Tariffs don't work.... or something.

"Nvidia said it planned to produce an American-made supercomputer from a U.S. platform, and planned to produce as much as $500 billion in artificial-intelligence infrastructure over the next four years as part of a partnership with Foxconn and Taiwan Semiconductor."

" was detected in a beef cow at a slaughter plant in South Carolina.""

Do grow up. They've found 6 cases in the last two decades. None of which entered the food chain. None of which entered the food chain.

If we banned products from every country that detected diseases in their country, we'd be under permanent lockdown. Not a single thing would come in from Chyna.

We shouldn't be banning product from countries that find problems BEFORE it enters the food chain. Its the countries that don't have those quarantine regimes (Wuhan Food Market anyone?) that ought to be banned.

Its increasingly clear that the ban on US beef was just a trade barrier to prop up the local industry which is why the US ws pissed off about it.

None of which entered the food chain.

mhaze,

You’re right - you didn’t say it. You implied it. And now you’re trying to pretend that implication is irrelevant, as though the only ideas worth challenging are the ones spelled out in quotation marks.

That’s a false dichotomy - and a familiar retreat.

You used emotionally loaded language like “begging,” “scrambling,” and “racing,” then lined up a series of countries and companies supposedly responding to Trump’s pressure - including Australia’s beef policy. That’s not a coincidence. It’s narrative construction through implication.

So yes, you didn’t say it. You implied it.

And now, rather than defend the implication, you’re playing word games about how implication isn’t saying - as if that erases the original message you were pushing.

If that’s checkmate, it’s only because you’ve taken your own king off the board.

Trumpster,

You said; "What diseased US beef? Well none can be found" Grow up, back tracking as usual, I gave you 2 examples. Now from you its "They've found SIX cases", your original clam of "NONE can be found" was a lie.

BTW, The Australian beef industry doesn't need "propping up" as you claim, it can stand on its own two feet, with very strong world demand for our product. in 2024 beef exports reached a record level of over $17 billion, with the US market accounting for $3.4 billion. Much of the Australian beef exports to US are used in conjunction with local beef, that has a higher fat content to produce processed meat patties, sold in fast food outlets, about 2/3rds of our export.

Globalisation has hollowed out domestic economies and enabled an autocratic, hostile Communist China to accumulate a dangerous amount of power. Trump is pushing back against that: as he was elected to do, and as he promised.

The 90 day pause on tariffs is not a backdown by President Trump; he has achieved exactly what he wanted from countries free-loading off America. These countries are now crapping them themselves, making offers to drop all tariffs against American goods. They will welcome American goods with much lower tariffs, or in some cases, none at all. As for Australia, with the lowest tariff of 10%, we need to straighten out the uniparty - our non-Trump problem - and stop listening to the mainstream media and everything it vomits up. As for the ups and downs of the stock exchange, my annual visit to my financial advisor has assured me, as always, that with a few minor adjustments, all will be well. The market always recovers, Donald Trump or no Donald Trump.

ttbn,

That’s quite the victory lap - especially given that the 90-day pause only happened because the US Trade Rep's office was overwhelmed and underprepared for what Trump triggered.

If this was all part of the plan, it’s strange that his own team admitted they didn’t anticipate the scale of the response or have the capacity to handle simultaneous negotiations. But I suppose if you frame every disruption as deliberate, then every scramble looks like a masterstroke.

We’ve now gone from “countries are begging,” to “every nation… will have a different approach,” to “they’re crapping themselves” - and each time, the story shifts just enough to preserve the narrative.

And if these countries really are offering to drop all tariffs, great - where’s the list? Where’s the detail? Because so far, the specifics tend to evaporate as soon as someone asks for them.

As for the markets - yes, they fluctuate. But faith in eventual recovery isn’t the same thing as confidence in the policymaking that rattled them in the first place.

A. The Orange Fascist Regime
B. Communist China

There fixed that for you titibean.
And Ill take our biggest trading partner China any day.

Paul,

" your original clam of "NONE can be found" was a lie."

Nup. No diseases have been found in the food chain. That there are diseases in the herd is different issue that only the naive and/or pompous would fret about.

There are any number of diseases in the Australia cattle herd. I guess that Paul, being so afraid of such things, doesn't eat beef. Oh and there are diseases in our bee colonies. So no honey for Paul. Oh and no pork? Chicken...yikes.

So I'm guessing Paul lives on fresh air and water. oops...not water. There are who knows how many bugs in our dams.

The thing is that, while there are all sorts of pathogens in our (and the US's) food supply that will terrify chicken-littles like Paul, these are filtered out by modern quarantine procedures. So water is cleaned before it gets into our taps. Honey is treated. Meats of all varities checked long before it enters the food chain.

Australia has a long tradition of using claims about quarantine as a trade barrier. This is just another example that the yanks have decided to call out.

"And now, rather than defend the implication,"

So JD draws the wrong implication from what I wrote and then demands that I defend his wrong inferences!!

Do me a favour JD. Rather than reading between the lines, try just reading the actual lines.

mhaze,

You’ve shifted from defending your point to pretending it never existed - and now you’re accusing me of imagining things that weren’t there?

You wrote:

“I'd be willing to bet that the Australian quarantine control authorities are currently re-examining the trade barriers against US beef.”

Not should be, not might be, not would be prudent if they did. You said you’d bet that it is happening - right after claiming countries are “scrambling” and “racing” in response to Trump’s tariffs.

That wasn’t subtle. It was narrative framing - and it’s perfectly valid to draw reasonable inferences from how you structure and present your claims.

So no, I’m not asking you to defend my inferences. I’m asking you to take ownership of the implications you built into your own argument - before walking them back once they were challenged.

That’s not misreading the lines. That’s recognising the space between them was never empty.

Is that the same JD who wrote: "You’re right - you didn’t say it. You implied it.".
I don't have the slightest intention of trying to explain what you thought I said in opposition to what I actually said.

Yes, mhaze - that’s me.

I said you didn’t state it outright. You implied it - clearly, deliberately, and consistently within a broader narrative where Trump’s tariffs had sent countries “scrambling,” “racing,” and “begging.” Australia’s beef policy appeared in that same paragraph, with the same framing.

So when I said “you didn’t say it,” I wasn’t conceding - I was clarifying the nature of your claim: rhetorical implication, not literal quotation. That’s what implication means.

But you knew all this already, didn't you?

You’re free to refuse to explain the contrast between what you implied and what you now claim you meant - but that refusal doesn’t erase the record. It just confirms the pattern.

And if you truly believed the implication was mine alone, you’d have corrected it back then - not doubled down and only rewritten it once challenged.

Trumpster, when you get caught out, you move the goal posts.

You said; "What diseased US beef? Well none can be found"

YES IT CAN,

The answer to that was; "In May 2023, a case of atypical Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), also known as mad cow disease, was detected in a beef cow at a slaughter plant in South Carolina."

"US animal health officials, have identified 6 BSE (mad cow disease) cases in cows in the United States"

Caught out you move the goal posts;

"No diseases have been found in the food chain. That there are diseases in the herd is different issue"

BTW The first mad cow was in the slaughter house, what was he doing there? Having a holiday! Wake up sunshine.

So Paul, if you're gunna fret about the BSE in a few American cows are you fretting about all the diseases in the Aussie cows? When did you become a vegan?

___________________________________________________________________

I was assured by all the best people (in their minds) that this could never happen....

http://amac.us/newsline/economy/massive-numbers-trumps-economic-agenda-sparks-7-trillion-in-investment/

Trumps policies come from the Heritage Foundation Project 2025
http://www.project2025.org/policy/

mhaze,

Serves you right for paying any attention to strawmen. Haven’t you seen The Wizard of Oz?

As for the article: yes, I know how excited you get over big numbers - to the point where you'll even strip them of any context just to make them sound bigger.

But when you dig past the headline, most of the investment it cites comes from companies like Nvidia, TSMC, and Foxconn - all of which are driven by global supply chain restructuring, Taiwan tensions, and semiconductor incentives tied to the CHIPS Act.

That’s not the result of Trump’s tariffs - that’s the private sector hedging against risk and capitalising on long-term trends. And ironically, even your source admits companies are shifting operations to avoid tariffs. That’s not economic strength - that’s working around policy volatility.

If Trump wants to take credit for everything built on US soil, should we also credit him for the instability that made those “adjustments” necessary in the first place?

Trumpster, you are so good at moving the goal posts, they are no longer in the foot oval, you're moved them out into the car park!

"So Paul, if you're gunna fret about the BSE in a few American cows are you fretting about all the diseases in the Aussie cows?"

Chalk and cheese, our cattle are free of deadly Mad Cow Disease, unlike America where it has been found, (you claimed it hadn't been found there, lie) AND with our strict bio security measures our cattle remain free of BSE. Why would we want to import American beef, we produce more than enough to meet local demand, and in fact beef is a big export product for Australia.

BTW, your folk hero The Orange Man can't enter Australia, strict bio security rules and all that, Mad Trump Disease. Its already been detected in several far right nut jobs here, Mini-Me Trump that's The Dud, he tries to hide it, but he's infected, Fat Clive defiantly has it, as does The Lovely Pauline. Your posts indicate you need testing asap as well.

"If Trump wants to take credit for everything built on US soil, should we also credit him for the instability that made those “adjustments” necessary in the first place?"

Yes there is 'instability'....and its glorious.

Trump is rending asunder a global trade system designed to advantage the US financial sector and foreign investors in low wage countries to the detriment of the US working and middle classes. And that can't be done 'gently'. It has to be torn down and that necessarily means some disruption. All revolutions cause disruption. Some understand that. Others sit on the sidelines fretting about 'stability'.

Ah yes, mhaze - it’s not a mess, it’s a revolution. It's not a bug, it's a feature!

You’re romanticising instability as a kind of noble upheaval - as if chaos is a virtue so long as it’s wrapped in working-class branding. But tearing something down isn’t strategy unless you know what’s being built in its place - and Trump hasn’t offered a vision. Just slogans, tariffs, and reaction.

Yes, all change causes disruption - but the goal of smart policy is to minimise unnecessary damage, not glorify it. Otherwise you’re just cheering on the wrecking ball and hoping someone else figures out the blueprint later.

And it’s not just “financial elites” who suffer when systems break down - it’s farmers, exporters, consumers, and yes, the working class. The people you claim this revolution is for are often the first to pay the price.

Calling that “glorious” doesn’t make it true. It just reveals who’s watching the fireworks, and who’s standing under them. Because at this point, you’re not describing a policy shift - you’re describing a belief system. One where anything that hurts must be helping, and anything chaotic must be part of the plan.

That’s not analysis. That’s faith. And faith in a wrecking ball isn’t strategy - it’s just a commitment to cheering, no matter what gets flattened.

Trumpster,

Our hearts should bleed for the poor Americans, with the average Yank rated only 8th in the world on the living standard index. These poor chaps with less than 5% of the worlds population consume over 25% of the worlds resources, the poor dears, such injustice it should be 100%. Trump has imposed tariffs on West African nations, you know the ones, the countries that America took slaves from to 'Make America Great' in the first place.

Trumpster, good news

Your Orange Man has slapped a 37% tariff on that disgustingly rich country Botswana! Isn't that good news, we can't have these mega rich countries like Botswana, take advantage of poor America.

News Flash, The Orange Man has slapped a 10% tariff on the penguins of Heard Island. The 'Heardydablers' penguins native to Heard Island, have been running a secret campaign to 'Make Heard Island Great Again'. Trumpy said they (the Heardydablers, penguins of Heard Island) have done nothing about the illegal sardines crossing the boarder from Heard Island into the United States! Disgusting, and if they are not careful The Orange Man might have to invade the joint, guns ablazen' !