mhaze- Good point about the projection of power. Aircraft carriers are of course the classic archetypical example of naval power projection.

Yes. ever since the Battle of Midway, aircraft carriers were the main way to project power into war zones far from home base. But since the advent of things like cruise missiles and Exocets and the like, a lone aircraft carriers is really just a floating target. As always the rise of the carrier meant that nations looked to counter-measures just as the rise of drones will and has led to counter-measures.

That's why the US has carrier groups with an absolutely flotilla of frigates, cruisers, subs and destroyers surrounding and protecting the carrier. Australia can't afford that. Few countries can.

Subs are the poor man's force projector.

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Its the 80th anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge.

Nuts!

Submarines are an integral part of the nuclear triad.
There is every reason in the world to have them if you possess nuclear weapon capabilities, but we don't.

Technology is quite sophisticated these days, they can identify and detect ships just off wake patterns, they can drop sensors into the ocean to detect underwater sea traffic, and drones and missiles are getting so sophisticated, you wouldn't want to bring a carrier battle group anywhere near anything.
Let's say China invades Taiwan and Philipines tomorrow, what are we going to do about it?
(Not that I think they have any reason to do this unless the West provokes them to act.)
Send in an attack force of amphibious vehicles?
How many do you think are going to make it to shore?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_Combat_Vehicle

The US will try to attack Chinas SLOC (Sea Lines Of Communication) attacking cargo ships and Chinese destroyers, while China will target all places in the asia region where non-nuclear ships can refuel.
It will be a huge debacle, but after a U.S carrier is sunk, you can bet there will be US hawks demanding a nuclear response.
(But before we even get that far, do you not think Russia and China won't have their subs shadowing any U.S fleet crossing the Pacific?}

It's the reason why China is building the Belt and Road Initiative, to diversify their trade routes, they also wish to build a second canal in Thailand, so they can bypass the choke points at Malacca Strait and in the Java sea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Canal

A trillion dollars is a lot of money that might be better spent elsewhere, lets just power up our country properly with domestic nuclear energy first, then we may have a country worth saving.

Things are already going downhill fast.
We have such a big country, there's so much more we could do with it if only we could be more competitive, and had leaders with brains.

Hi CM
"Drones are vulnerable to electromagnetic interference and electromagnetic pulse affecting both communication and damage to electronic components."

Saw this a few days back.
(Not exactly sure what to make of it.)

http://x.com/TWMCLtd/status/1867175447621984714
#Russia is scared, with Z channels saying #Ukraine has successfully installed Starlink on its large attack drones.
This helps them bypass EW defences and suppression should also not be possible.

- I think I also another tweet saying they were shielding the drones with Starlink housings or something...

While on the other side
‘Neither Starlink Nor Starshield…’ Russia ‘Develops Kalinka’ That Can ‘Disrupt’ Ukraine’s Drone Edge
http://youtu.be/ciz27Zd0Zf8

So the technology is advancing on both sides quite fast.
Both sides are constantly making changes to gain an edge that counters the other side.

The submarines seem to me more like vital pieces of equipment with which to protect other nations, not necessarily Australia.
I could certainly see the benefit in being able to have a significant strike capability should China invade other nations along it's periphery.
But it's a lot of money, and we will end up targeted as well, in a war that we may not win, and which probably shouldn't be fought in the first place.
A war with China is a war against the entire world.
All of our countries now rely on China to maintain the quality of life we now enjoy.

Wow! So things have changed around here (and I've only been gone a few months). Armchair Critic is saying some sensible stuff (still there's some weird and wacky but not all he's saying is). And mhaze is not saying sensible stuff.

I would have thought mhaze, from the angle that I previously perceived that you use to write from, that you would think quadcopters would be one of the best ways to lead an attack on an aircraft carrier and its is associated group, like I do. But you don't seem to think so?