The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Immigration: What Is Best For Australia

Immigration: What Is Best For Australia

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
After pointing out that people discriminate all the time for their own good, Peter Smith in “In Praise of Discrimination”, 13/10/24, then writes that when it comes to who we allow into Australia, we do not discriminate along lines that are good for Australia.

Australian regimes allow into our country anyone who wants to come here, with few exceptions, including the maniacs from theocracies who hate us and our values, and who are now taking over our streets.

We should be choosing the best: those with the most to offer; not criminals, terrorists and terrorist sympathisers, and “disabled people” currently accepted by Albanese, Wong, Burke, and the Greens.

And, of course, multiculturalism has always been a “crock”.

Our immigration policy should be aimed at helping Australia be a “secure and pleasant, prosperous country” for its citizens. Something it no longer is.

Smith believes, as I do, that the national interest should be the only criterion driving immigration.

https://quadrant.org.au/features/australia/304822/
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 14 October 2024 7:56:24 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It’s a while since I visited the Quadrant website. It has certainly gone downhill.

Smith’s article is guilty of the logical fallacy of equivocation – taking a word with two or more meanings and applying one meaning in one part of the argument and another in a different part.

Australia’s migration policy does unashamedly discriminate in who it lets in, in precisely the way you suggest it should – selecting people whose skills, age profile etc confirm with those the Australian Government thinks we most need. The great majority of immigrants are people whose skills are in short supply, and their families:
http://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/what-we-do/migration-program-planning-levels

We do have a small annual humanitarian intake, but the rest are pretty much only allowed in if they are expected to make a positive contribution to the economy and society.

Our policy is “non-discriminatory” in the sense that race and religion are not criteria in determining eligibility. Quite rightly.

What Smith’s dog-whistle article does is to implicitly conflate the two types of discrimination – implying that by not discriminating on the basis of race or religion, we are not choosing the best migrants. It presents zero evidence to demonstrate why this is so.
Posted by Rhian, Monday, 14 October 2024 6:10:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Currently there are about 70,000 visa overstayers in Australia who should have been deported by now.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 14 October 2024 9:05:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The gene pool is in desperate need of freshening up but the present flooding by pretend "refugees" is not helping at all !
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 6:15:12 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Discrimination is a great quality - it means knowing right from wrong and true from untrue.

While action may follow discrimination, discrimination itself is about recognition alone: while discrimination is legitimate at all times, any following action(s) still ought to be legitimate on their own merits.

While blocking someone from entering your home or your society is generally legitimate, blocking them from entering a whole country or continent, is not. Your home is yours, your society is (in common) yours, but the land is God's, not yours - you have not created it, so only the improvements you make of the land can ever be yours, not the land itself.

By all means, do discriminate and based on that freely decide whom to invite and whom to admit into your society(s), but when others enter the land anyway, uninvited, you have no moral legitimacy to physically block and/or expel them. It goes without saying that such uninvited people would still not be entitled to be admitted into your society or enjoy its benefits and the improvements you made on the land.

In summary, do discriminate - but include in that discrimination not only the material advantages and disadvantages, but also what is morally right or wrong for you to do.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 6:23:18 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yuyutsu,
Invasion is not welcome under any circumstances as Australians are only too familiar with. Invasion by stealth & deceit is a totally different game altogether. It is one thing to take over land & provide for all but to arrive with no intention in the first place to pull your weight for the good of all & state your open agenda to take over the Nation is not on in anyone's language !
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 6:34:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Australia has a very successful multicultural society thanks to the intake of post war migrants. Yes, there is always problems with people, regardless of ethnicity, but in Australia those problems have been relatively minor compared to the benefits immigrants have brought to Australia.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 6:41:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
When we see or hear what appears to be the nonsense of “successful multiculturalism”, and retort that it hasn't been successful anywhere since it was it was forced on white, Western countries only, perhaps we have got the the wrong end of the stick, and it has been successful in doing the job it was meant to do: destroy Western civilisation after the mongrels responsible for are dead and gone e.g Malcolm Fraser in Australia.

If multiculturalism was meant to bring down the West, as I am convinced it was, then it is proving to be very successful.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 9:42:14 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
regardless of ethnicity,
Paul1405,
yes, there are bad apples in every crate however, when you have crates upon crates of bad apples delivered to your shores instead of having them sorted first then you're literally inviting a contaminated harvest. To claim this import to have unforseeable consequences is as idiotic as it can be.
Race is not the issue here, it's ethnicity. IMO one of the worst factors is dual citizenship as people are splitting their loyalty from the start.
There are also those who take on Australian citizenship for a smoke screen because the silly system allows religion to be instrumental in changing this society in their favour not in Australians favour ! After all, the Census statistics are what policies are made on not the number of people.
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 10:17:45 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If my parents and grandparents had not been invited to
come to Australia and settle here to fill the acute
labour shortage post World War II. If they had not
been accepted here they would have joined the millions
murdered by the regime from which they were fleeing.

Therefore I care deeply about refugees and asylum
seekers. My family worked hard in this country.
They taught us to respect the norms and values of our
neighbours and colleagues. They taught us to avoid
stereotypes, judgements, and biases.

I think the reason that in our country we've been
successful with multiculturalism is because
our governments have been clear and inclusive and have
established clear and shared expectations.

Their policies and programs have helped greatly.

Australia is, in my opinion the best country in the
world. That's why so many want to come and live here.
We're not perfect. But we're certainly better than
many others.

All of us have ancestries of people who came from elsewhere.
We are and have always been a diverse people. Even our
Indigenous people were made up of different tribes -
speaking different languages.

We need as human beings care about injustice and inequality.
We need to find our shared humanity and what unites us not
look for divisions and exclusions.
We should care deeply about refugees and asylum seekers and
that they should be met and welcomed to this country.

Migrants have made a huge contribution to our nation. And
they continue to do so. That is something that we need to
acknowledge . Because it is factual.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 10:20:15 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Indyvidual,

If anyone is to be blamed for "invasion" then it is the white/British Australians who "took" the land from the aboriginals.

But I am not asking you to feel guilty because you are not an invader - you are a guest on God's land just like the aboriginals before you, it was neither previously their land nor is it now yours. They had no "right" to prevent you from coming, nor have you any "right" to prevent others - and those who attempt to forcibly prevent others from coming are bullies.

There should be no need for stealth and deceit because those arriving from other continents into the continent of Australia do not even need to inform you why they come, just like your ancestors never had to inform the aboriginals why they arrived.

If people arriving wish to join your society as well, then of course that is a different story - if they want to be entitled to welfare, healthcare, aged-care, police+courts protection, etc., then obviously you may ask them why they come, then obviously you have every discretion whether or not to accept them into your society - but not so if they only wish to move into this continent.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 6:10:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If anyone is to be blamed for "invasion" then it is the white/British Australians who "took" the land from the aboriginals.
Yuyutsu,
We all know the Aborigines but we're still unclear as to who the Aboriginals were although new findings are made as DNA testing goes on. The Aborigines claimed all the Aboriginals had but they're not accused of invasion.
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 15 October 2024 11:40:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Foxy & Yuyutsu are trying to imply that those who come here lately under the pretence of refugee are of the same mentality as the post war European migrants ! That is nothing short of wishful thinking. Don't they read what's going on in Europe & the USA ?
Or, do they consciously choose to ignore the facts in favour of their ideological dreams somehow hoping all the wrong will magically disappear ?
The post ww2 migrants were looking for a better life whereas the new crowd is looking for an easier life & gaining control over the hosts. vast differences !
Australians need to start thinking what kind of Nation they want to live in !
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 16 October 2024 6:17:06 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Individual,

I was not trying to imply anything, certainly not about immigrants of any kind.

All I was writing, was about discriminating between right and wrong.

If we don't like these new immigrants, whatever be the reason, then we need not invite them into the convenience of our society and the benefits that come with it.
We have no moral right, on the other hand, to physically prevent them from entering this continent, which is God's, not ours.
That was all I said, there were no other implications.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 16 October 2024 6:31:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
to physically prevent them from entering this continent
Yuyutsu,
I don't think many would have a problem with that. Where the trouble starts is; how these people will then behave. Will they pull their own weight & contribute like my generation & those before us did or will they demand welfare from day 1 ?
Will you et al sponsor them if they choose to just demand everyone else supports them ? What is your take on those who have been in Australia for a generation & still don't speak the common language here & what do you plan to do when they tell you what to do like it's happening now in Europe ? Will you sponsor their demonstrations & pay for the damages caused by unloading their mindless baggage on you ?
Please tell me where I'm wrong by predicting the same scenario playing out here as it does in Europe.
Would you like to see Australia continueing as a Western nation or would you you be acceptable of the Islamic European alternative ?
I wonder what Paul1405 could offer from an indigenous viewpoint ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 16 October 2024 9:05:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Indyvidual,

My parents and grandparents did not come to this country
seeking "a better life". They were fleeing from the
Soviet regime and being murdered. They were part of the
Displaced People in Europe who were invited by the
Australian government to come to
Australia to solve the
acute labour shortage in the country at the time.

They had to fulfill a 2 year contract to work wherever they
were sent before they could settle permanently. They came as
refugees. Not as economic seekers. And as so many are
trying to do today. Fleeing from persecution.

In any case, whatever the reasons may be for people coming
to this country today - they should not all be tarred with the
same brush because of the actions of a few trouble makers.
You have to allow for individual differences. And our
government does have in place very strict monitoring
processes and security checks.

We need to acknowledge that every inhabitant adds something
to Australia. Of course there are those who've left a
bigger footprint.

As we know from our history - Australians come in all shapes
and sizes, from all backgrounds, - from different countries.
They come from the city, from the country, from every
state.

Over the course of our history - author and satirist -
Ben Pobjie points out - we've had "titans of
businesses, legends of sport, giants of science, colossi of
philanthropy, and masters of politics".

Ben Pobjie tells us that " Australians have led the world in
myriad ways and whether generating wealth, inspiring youth,
opening up the vistas of human potential, saving lives, they've
done it all in a peculiarly Australian way. With a swagger
and style that marks a person out as an inhabitant of the
scientifically determined greatest country on earth".

Don't compare us to other countries. We're different.
We do things in our own way Of that we can be proud.
Instead of criticizing and spreading fear - let us
celebrate being Australian in the best way we know - with
the joyous cry of - "Aussie! Aussie!, Aussie!"

Onya!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 October 2024 9:27:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Indyvidual,

«Will they pull their own weight & contribute like my generation & those before us did or will they demand welfare from day 1?»

Generally neither. I think they'll just mind their own business.

«Will you et al sponsor them if they choose to just demand everyone else supports them?»

If they were my relatives then I probably would.

But how could they possibly "demand"?
Suppose they used violence, then people will simply kill them (remember, they wouldn't even enjoy the protection of the law!)

«What is your take on those who have been in Australia for a generation & still don't speak the common language here & what do you plan to do when they tell you what to do like it's happening now in Europe?»

At the moment we do not have such people in Australia, who arrived without asking for a visa and then stayed here for a generation.

So I don't make any plans for every possible hypothetical scenario - let them come and then we can work out what to do on a case-by-case basis.

«Will you sponsor their demonstrations & pay for the damages caused by unloading their mindless baggage on you?»

What demonstrations?
What damages?
What mindless baggage?

Such people do not even exist at present.
If and when they arrive then they won't be part of society,
then we will relate to them more or less like we presently treat animals (either wild, livestock or pets): let's first see animals demonstrating before discussing it further...

«Please tell me where I'm wrong by predicting the same scenario playing out here as it does in Europe.»

We cannot compare immigrants who wish to become part of European society with people who come to a continent without wishing to have any relation with the native society.

«Would you like to see Australia continueing as a Western nation or would you you be acceptable of the Islamic European alternative?»

Neither. I do not believe in that false concept of "nation".

We aren't even comparing apples and oranges, but the moon and mice...
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 16 October 2024 1:01:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Indy,

"I wonder what Paul1405 could offer from an indigenous viewpoint ?" Firstly I don't claim to be indigenous, other than have said I have some indigenous ancestry. I'm sure you don't claim to be an ethnic Nincompoop from the land of Nincompooply, even though your Great Uncle Thaddeus was brought to Australia in chains, and suffered the lash constantly due to the family trait of habitual laziness.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 16 October 2024 6:00:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy