It is now unlawful to perform the Nazi salute in public or
publicly display or trade in Nazi symbols with the
Albanese government's landmark legislation that came into
law from Monday 8 January.

The passage of the Counter Terrorism Amendment (Prohibited
Hate Symbols and other measures) Bill 2023 through the
federal parliament sent a clear message that there is no
place in Australia for acts and symbols that glorify the
horrors of the Holocaust and terrorist acts. So stated the
media release from Attorney General The Hon. Mark Dreyfus.

This is the first legislation of its kind and will
ensure no one in Australia will be allowed to glorify
or profit from acts and symbols that celebrate the Nazis.

There is no dispute about the enormity of Hitler's
Holocaust. But it is equally important to be as aware of the
accomplishments of the Soviet regime and its secret police,
which brought death to at least four times as many people
as Hitler did.

Stalin admired Hitler, and initially, the two worked hand
in hand. So if we're going to ban one set of symbols and acts -
shouldn't we also consider banning others that were
destructive as well?

If there is no place in Australia for acts and symbols that
glorify hate symbols and terrorist acts than should we
only limit it to banning just one set of symbols?
Many more suffered and still are suffering
under communism

Your thoughts please.

Are you mad? More laws that won't be enforced - just as laws against glorify and promoting terrorism are not enforced now.

"Nazis" dressed up in shorts and T-shirts like plumbers are a joke. Communism has been taken over by the Greens.

That fact that the Albanese government can, with a straight face, bring in a law against "Nazis" when they won't enforce already available laws against what's going on our streets now, is really sick. You are sick for dragging up this rubbish all the time.

ttbn be careful, you're not as safe as you may think. You claim; "Communism has been taken over by the Greens." What a load of rubbish.

"A self-described Nazi on Tuesday became the first person convicted in the Australian state of Victoria of performing an outlawed Nazi salute."
Jacob Hersant now faces up to 12 months in jail.

"Three men were convicted in June of performing the Nazi salute during a soccer match in Sydney on Oct. 1, 2022. New South Wales state had banned Nazi symbols in 2022. They were each fined and have appealed.

I shared a link some time back to the same 'offending' Israeli flag with a blue NAZI symbol instead of the Star of David.

I also note there was an 82yo Jewish woman who called several mosques calling them all names and telling them to go back to where they came from and that 'Australia is for the Israelis'.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/october-7-anniversary-live-updates-vigils-rallies-held-in-sydney-one-year-after-hamas-attacks-on-israel-20241007-p5kgci.html

She was charged with 'using a carriage service to threaten, harass or offend' but not with a hate crime for discrimination based on religion, not that I wish to see the old girl in jail.

‘Unprofessional’: Classic Aussie phrase offending people in 2024
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/unprofessional-classic-aussie-phrase-offending-people-in-2024/news-story/3af3d520f8b6067b543141f7ed955249

Aussies now offended by the word 'mate'.

Dear Foxy,

«Your thoughts please.»

It is morally wrong for states to make any laws that restrict people and punish them for disobedience.

That is because the people in question were never even asked whether or not they freely wish to have anything to do with these states and be subjected to their laws.

While both Nazi and Soviet symbols are revolting, government has no moral authority to ban them and then punish those who display them.

Today a law was legislated to restrict and frustrate bad people - tomorrow another law will be legislated to restrict and frustrate good people, including yourself, preventing you from doing what is most dear to you and forcing you to do other things which you abhor. And even if no law is eventually legislated against what is most dear to you, so long as government can legislate it, you will still have to live in constant fear that it might.

Well thanks, but no thanks!

A society that doesn't know what a woman is; a society that approves the falsification of birth certificates; a society that prosecutes people who use the “wrong pronouns”, and all the malarkey about the scientific impossibility of sex change, probably shouldn't be making laws on anything. Rather, that society should question if it still has the right to exist.

History tells us that empires, societies and civilizations fail and disappear. The nonsense going on in Western civilisation right now has many of the characteristics that wiped out previous civilisations.

If we are willing to label Hitler as a sub-human zealot and
ban his regime's symbols and acts then we should also ban
Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, the Ku Klux Klan, and many others
who not only preached hatred but also acted upon their
evil ideologies.

Where do we draw the line, and who and how do we select who and
how to ban? Once we start banning - where do we stop?

Many questions need answers. Should politics be left out of our
decisions?

"Western Civilisation" has become a misnomer !
The simpledoms ban a salute yet allow a Religion to openly state that it's goal is to do away with all others by way of death !
Who are the stupid ones again ?

Having this little nutty Nazi running around the place giving the old "Sieg Heil" to everyone is not the problem. The problem arises when extremest try to infiltrate moderate political parties, and that has been evident in Australia, I recall the 'Ugly Faction' which came to prominence within the NSW Liberal Party post WWII. These people were Ex-Nazi refugees from Eastern Europe who wanted to establish Nazism here in Australia, and they seen the Liberal Party as an ideal vehicle to further that aim. More recently an official of the One Nation Party went to America seeking funds from right wing extremists to propagate their extreme ideology in Australia.

WOW! With the Queensland State Election only a couple of weeks away. I've met all 6 candidates for my electorate. The ON candidate is a little screwy but relatively harmless, and I like him personally. I discovered who is running for the Family First Party, I know him well, a true religious crazy, but that's democracy. My good friend "Little Buddha" is running as an Independent, failed to become the "Lord Mayor" in March, now seeks to become "Premier" in October ha ha, if that fails there's always the "Prime Minister" job next year, and who knows "Secretary General Of The UN"..."President" of US, doing well my boy! BTW "Little Buddha" got 12% at the council elections, better than some. At least he's a trier!

We used to live in a free country with freedom of expression. But the authoritarians, having tasted the power of suppression during the lockdown debacles, now want to enforce their version of freedom on the rest of us. You are free to say anything you like so long as they approve of it.

Only nutters who have no traction in Australian society want to glorify the Nazis. Its wrong to force them underground since that's where they metastasize Much better that they be allowed to practice their ideology in public where it can be challenged. And if you have no arguments to challenge it, then you need to think more. But the authoritarians always reach for the censorship first because they haven't the wherewithal to actually mount a valid counter-argument.

Meanwhile the vast majority sit back and cheer on the censors.

First they came for the Nazis, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Nazi....

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Martin Niemöller

Banning will only make them more determined and stronger.
We need to think of the consequences of banning.

These play “Nazis” that we see occasionally - pushing in on the Deeming/Parker real women-only rally was the last time they got any press - in their baseball caps and shorts (probably with plumber's cracks showing) are good for a laugh. I'm sure they offend some people, but they can be offended, and I'll have a laugh. The idea that these w..ckers are dangerous is the biggest laugh of all. The half-wit/useful idiot section of German Nazis wore brown (why they were called Brown Shirts). The galahs prancing around in Melbourne and Sydney can't even get the dress code right.

Happily for me, the idiots are attracted only to Melbourne and Sydney in numbers, like the Muslim extremists. They should all be trucked to Canberra to hold their riots.

Got a flier in the mail that says Crisafully wants to give $10 Billion/year to multinationals. Well, seeing that they employ people it's still wiser than wasting it on Arts & incompetent bureaudroids etc.
It doesn't say that the flyer is from Labor. It only says authorised by Kate Flanders, Brisbane. They haven't even got the decency of saying that the flyer is a Labor leaflet.

What is more, we don't need Nazis when we have so many anti-Semites in the Green and Labor parties. Banning them might be a better idea than banning a few scungy faux Nazis. Albanese exhorts Jewish Australians to ‘stay at home: don't cause trouble’, while the ones causing trouble strut our streets, full of hate for Jews: and yes people, hate for the West in general.

As Tony Abbott says, “Israel is fighting for everyone, because ‘death to infidels’ Islam, is potentially coming for us all.” And Canberra keeps letting them in. Albanese's immigration is a stark reminder of what he thinks about Jews. 3,000 Palestinians straight from Gaza, most of whom voted for Hamas.

Here's a link for anyone interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right_terrorism_in_Australia

It gives the current situation of terrorism in Australia,
The history of the extremist groups. The incidents that
have taken place, including in various states. And,
legislation and enforcement.

My apologies for the typo.

Here's the link again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Australia

While we are on ratbags and threats to Australia from within, one Dr. Randa-Abdel Fattah of Macquarie University, has pronounced that NSW police colours are Islamophobic because they are the same colours as the Israeli flag.

This batsh.t crazy female is a researcher on Muslim social justice movements on our dollar. She is an “expert on hatred directed Muslims”.

I hate to think how crazy the in-expert dills are!

During visits to Sydney University, little kids are taught to squeal ‘intifada’ an ‘Israel is a terrorist state.

The “expert”, Dr. Fattah asserts that this exercise gives innocent children “agency”, whatever that means.

The nasty piece of work shares in Albanese's (taxpayers’) grant of more than $800,000 to to PROMOTE ACTIVISM.

Now, there is a visa that needs checking. A gaggle of ridiculous people playing at Nazis can't hold a candle to this sort of Fifth Columnist and West-hating anti-Semite, who shouldn't be with a bull's roar of our society.

Oh dear - I must know a different Dr Randa Abdel-Fattah.

The one I know, was born in Australia and is a writer,
lawyer, who writes fiction and children's stories.
Her first novel - "Does My Head Look Big In This?"
was a best selling winning novel with praise coming
from:

"The freshest brilliant voice and perspective in young
adult fiction," Weekend Australian.

"Reading Randa Abdel-Fattah's first novel is like
discovering a jewel." Sydney Morning Herald.

"A no-holds barred look at life when cultures clash and
modernity wars with tradition," Good Weekend.

"This debut should speak to anyone who has felt like an
outsider for any reason," Publishers Weekly.

I highly recommend the book - "Does My Head Look Big
In This?" with Christmas just around the corner.
Your kids will love it - and so will you.

Hi Foxy,

ttbn is well known for regurgitating lies and nonsense from extreme right hate sights. He presents a diatribe of crap he's just read as fact, when it mostly lies and half truths at best. The blokes a small time Goebbelists who thinks people believe his way out nonsense.

ttbn, are you supporting that alleged drug snorting Liberal leader in South Australia?

Someone else Foxy claims to "know". Highly unlikely, but so bloody what anyway! The crazy woman did say what I said she did, and her history and what she has written means squat. She is an activist sucking on the public teat, working away against the West: Israel in particular.

Israel is on the frontier of a civilisational battle for the West, threatened by the far Left and Islamists - including this this Arab woman among us.

Another trouble-maker of the Muslim variety getting publicity that she wouldn't want as she puts herself about on the media for her own benefit after leaving the Labor Party who stupidly, and maybe illegally, got her into the Senate.

Senator Payman has been revealed, has ‘citizenship troubles’. The usual story: she “tried” to renounce her Afghani citizenship, but there was “no contact with the new government”.

Senator Hanson, one of the few Australian politicians who knows right from wrong, has requested that Senator Payman “refer herself” to the High Court to resolve the “concerns” - if there had been “concerns” when she nominated, there would be none now, because she would not have been in the Senate. But, the AEC and the political class do a very good line in slacking.

In 2018, three Senators had to resign because they were dual citizens.

How did Payman get away with it? She seems to be smart, and certainly knows how to get publicity for herself: although that's not all that hard with the media so slavish towards minorities.

Dishonesty, perhaps. Another reason for not being in the Australian government which, it is evident, is not hard to fool.

Dear Paul,

You've got to admit that it takes all kinds of people
to stop a discussion forum from being boring. Imagine if
we all agreed? There's people on here that most of us
would avoid like the flu in real life. People who aren't
capable of a discussion or a conversation.

Insults are what they do best. Let them vent their spleens.
Nobody really takes them seriously. Luckily, they are a
tiny minority in this country - and really don't
achieve anything - as we can see by our election results.
Voters do see them for what they are.

And for that we can all be grateful.

We have our families, friends, colleagues, and neighbours.
Our communities are strong. And what these mental midgets
with IQs of fence posts think and say - is of no real relevance.
Leave them to fizz and splatter in their own effluence.

Hi Foxy,

As my Old Man said to me once; "Son, there are a million Hitlers in the World, unfortunate one got the opportunity to do what he wanted."

Dear Paul,

But now the victims have turned into the abusers.
So Hitler won.

With thugs on the streets waving banners and dancing on the graves of Israeli civilians massacred a year ago, it is clear that we have lost Australia without a peep from the Albanese government. Australia is now a multicultural cesspit of division and hatred, with Albanese continuing to import Islamists who will never let their hatreds and bigotries go, handing them on to beautiful little innocent toddlers, standing up with little signs bearing Israel-hating messages.

Over the weekend, a Rabbi carrying only our Australian flag, trying to remind these people where they are now, was arrested for disturbing the peace!

The responsibility for the new hate-filled Labor/Green/Teal Australia rests squarely on the shoulders of Albanese and Wong.

And peace in the Middle-East rests squarely on the
shoulders of Netanyahu and his government. Some
people's hatred of Palestinians is greater than their
love for our shared humanity.

Peace will only come in the Middle East when their love
for their families and children will be greater
than their hatred of the Palestinians.

The continued occupation, the draconian system of control,
the de-humanization and deaths are not important to some.
That doesn't upset them. Only the sad sight of a
small child carrying a placard to make a point, upsets some
people, as well as an Australian
government striving to not take sides and asking for a
ceasefire, seems to strike their ire and inflame them.
Go figure.

It takes all sorts.

But do we need them? This isn't a football game or a pub
brawl.

Dear Foxy

I think people who display symbols of Nazi, Stalinist, Islamist and other vile ideologies and movements should be challenged, condemned and despised, but not criminalised.

My main reason for thinking this is that freedom of speech means nothing if it does not encompass the freedom to say things that are stupid, abhorrent, offensive and wrong. It is central to our democratic system, and ironically by trying to silence democracy’s opponents we revert to using their tactics.

My second key reason is that the best way to demonstrate that these ideologies are wrong is to expose and engage them, not to suppress them. The extremists and conspiracy theorists who gravitate to them are likely to find them more attractive, not less, if they are suppressed. They are drawn by the thrill of the transgressive.

Some other reasons:

Symbols are complex and can be used to signify different things. The woman who waved a flag showing a swastika inside a Star of David in the blue and white colours of the Israeli flag was not, I believe, applauding Hitler but trying to paint a moral equivalence between the Holocaust and the plight of the Palestinians. I think this inference is vicious, racist, stupid and wrong – but it should not be illegal to use symbols in this way.

Symbols are also easy to approximate and can have many different meanings. Pity the Hindus and other faiths for whom the swastika was a sacred symbol long before the Nazi Hakenkreuz. Many anti-Israeli demonstrators wave flags that incorporate the colours and some features of extremist Islamist groups without replicating them entirely – should they be banned too?

Finally, I think this argument is part of a sad trend for us to lose sight of the difference between things we ought not to do, and things we ought not to be allowed to do. These issues are best resolved through vigorous social discourse and evidence, including social sanctions, not by government edict.

Hi Rhian,

Well said!

people who display symbols of Nazi, Stalinist, Islamist and other vile ideologies and movements should be challenged, condemned and despised, but not criminalised.
Rhian,
Totally agree and, add integrity-devoid bureaudroids as criminals ( not to be confused with decent public Servants) to that list.

A Nine Newspapers poll reveals that 59% of Australians are opposed to the obnoxious and intimidating pro-Palestine, anti-Israel street marches, which have ripped away any pretence of anything other than the raw hatred of Jews by Muslims and and the backward Left.

Despite the opposition and disgust of the majority, Albanese continues to import the rubbish, while most other countries - including Palestine's Muslim neighbour countries - refuse entry to Palestinians.

Facts will always prove you wrong.

59% of Australians are against the pro-Palestinian
protests?

And yet thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters have
rallied across Australia prior to, and during the
anniversary of 7th October Hamas attacks.

People who "Just want Peace," are not Jew haters.
Many Jews also took part in the pro-Palestinian
protests - what they dislike is the ongoing violence,
the misinformation, and the continued spread of hatred
by those who feel threatened as a result of their one-eyed
narrow ideologies.

I join the chorus - Well said, Rhian!

As a general principle I agree with Rhian, but I also question the requirement for social responsibility through truth telling. Stigmatising certain groups within society often will gain traction with many, even a majority. “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, was one of Goebbels laws of propaganda, Trump uses that "law" as often as he can to great effect to gain traction with the American public.

"These issues are best resolved through vigorous social discourse and evidence, including social sanctions" If powerful media interests support the liar how do you get "vigorous social discourse"?

. The symbols mentioned are “criminalised”. The crime is just not punished by the Albanese government.
. Yes. Freedom of speech is for everyone - unless it is “criminalised”. Think M.A.D Bill.
. Demonstrating, blocking streets, menacing and interference is not speech.
. You cannot “engage” a raving mob. A Rabbi tried that last weekend and was arrested for trying to engage.
. Symbols are not “complex”. They are just symbols. They are aggressive. The word ‘’complex’ is used by BS artists to confuse.

"shyte" stirring is "shyte" stirring - and if it has
the capacity to become a tinder-box and inflame
it should be stopped. Violence begets violence.

Whether it's done by a protest group, a white supremacist,
or a rabbi. If it's got the possibility of inciting
a dangerous situation - the police should take action.
They know what's dangerous - and excusing a select group
and allowing them their symbols -
while blaming and excluding others - is neither fair
nor productive. It creates even more division.

Hi Paul

If powerful media interests support the liar, then holding the liar to account is harder, but not impossible. Nowadays we have thousands of alternative outlets, and many credible (though not universally impartial or accurate) fact-checkers, to help hold liars to account. I suspect the problem is partly confirmation bias – we tend to believe lies that accord with our prejudices and preconceptions – and partly a post-truth disregard for once-accepted norms of reasoning and evidence. There is also some interesting (though depressing) research which suggests people distinguish between “facts” and “truth”. So, for example, in the USA many people who know that Trump is wrong when he accuses migrants of eating pets nonetheless don’t consider it a lie because it points to a “deeper truth” about what they consider to be the negative effects of migration. To paraphrase, Trump supporters don’t think migrants are bad because they eat pets; they think that eating pets is the kind of thing migrants might do because they are bad.

You may find this interesting:
http://www.colorado.edu/today/2024/03/04/facts-ignored-truth-flexible-when-falsehoods-support-political-beliefs

It helps to explain the (to me) baffling phenomenon of Trump’s continuing popularity.

It is extremely hard to counter this kind of reasoning, but I think censorship will make it worse, not better. Even if it were possible to stop politicians lying, trying to do so will leave peoples’ “deeper truths” unchallenged, and may even reinforce them

Hi Rhian,

You are correct, but there has to be a balance, and responsibility with ones words. I hark back to our "dear old friend" Adolf in the 1930's and I assume a total lack of accountability in Germany in those days for ranters and ravers, men like the Fuhrer and other extremists (Communists) as well, and whoever had the best lying propaganda and the most muscle won the day, in the end that was the Nazi's. Of course social conditions have to be right for extremists to come to the fore. Still, I am hesitant to give even moderate governments too much power of control, because we don't know what's around the corner.

Good to hear that there will be no more free flights out of Lebanon after tomorrow for people who ignored government warnings to leave.

“The importation of this tribal animus into Australian civic society is the most disturbing ….. It found fertile ground among progressive intellectuals mired in Western self-loathing and fixated on race, gender and identity.” (Nick Cater).

Spot on.

New arrivals should abandon their existing loyalties and adopt those of their hosts, or not come here are all. Being one of the most multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-faith countries in the world is tearing us apart. Our basic laws and values are disrespected and hated by some imports who should never have been brought here. And we don't have the leadership to sort it out.

“Once tribalism takes hold, it is almost impossible to thwart this ancient narcotic or to prevent it from destroying the centuries-long and much harder work of establishing multiracial nationhood and citizenship.” (Victor David Hanson)

In its submission Victoria police stated the criminal
rate for overseas groups was lower than for the crime rate
for Australian born.

According to the ABS - and Institute of Criminology migrants
on the whole are less likely to commit serious offences
than the Australian born population.

Australia doesn't record crime rates by ethnicity but it
does record the country of birth of prisoners. This allows
the Australian Bureau of Statistics to identify the rates
of incarceration of each migrant group.

Hi Foxy
Those are interesting stats. Unfortunately, they are strongly affected by our shockingly high rates of indigenous incarceration - Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people account for 3.8% of the total population but 33% of the prison population. This does not make your point wrong, and my back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest that migrants are less likely to be in prison than non-indigenous people born in Australia. But the gap is quite small.

Prisoners as % population:
Indigenous_ _ _ _ _ 1.41%
Other Australian _ _ 0.12%
Total Australian_ _ _ 0.19%
Non-Australian _ _ _ 0.10%
Total _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0.16%

Hi Rhian,

Thanks for your stats.

In our Prime Minister's election campaign we saw a PM
who thought he'd "successfully manage an idealistic,
collaborative, and positive "New politics" that would
bring people together to work for the good of the
country. The PM went to the 2022 election with his
"new politics"- a collaborative style agenda that
sought to bring all Australians, including business,
labour, Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians
together.

Unfortunately the old politics of culture wars, of "them"
and "us" remained with us. The PM's strategy was based on
assumed common interests, kindness and compassion rather
than divisiveness. However the strategy was easier to
implement as an election strategy than in government.

Australian politics has become so polarized - especially
over the developments in the Middle East. The government is
accused of so many things by the Opposition, the Murdoch
press, and as we can see some posters on this forum.

Blaming migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is so unfair.
Especially when so many are running from oppression,
and persecution. From injustice and inequality. As we know
in the many cases that we as a country have accepted, they
would have joined the millions murdered by the regimes
from which they were fleeing.

I therefore care deeply about refugees and asylum seekers
and that they should be met and welcomed by us all. They
are not criminals - and end up contributing so much to our
country.

I can't believe some of the things I am reading here. It's like I'm reading things from neo-nazi apologists.

As for the insinuation of 'if they crack down on certain people, say neo-nazis, they'll crack down/silence/ban me', please spare me the rhetoric. It's not going to happen and if anything it's nothing more than hypothetical.

Also, people need to be responsible for what they put out, and no we shouldn't have to put up with people who put out lies, misinformation and utter rubbish under some sort of free speech guise. We've seen that far too often at the expense of people actually learning something and people improving their life. That being they've fallen for or taken in someone else's lie/false information etc. when they could be getting good quality information provided to them - and learn something at the same time.

So, I really have no problem with banning nazi acts and symbols. It doesn't all have to be by the Government, but can include people speaking out for example and calling out their appalling behaviour. If some of it is though from government - so be it.

I think often people not affected by the actions of neo-nazi's stand some sort of high moral ground about personal freedoms and feel great about themselves, but it's at the expense of those directly affected by the actions of neo-nazi's. There's no care or compassion shown at all.

We've also just had on Saturday a Victorian Police officer suspended over alleged neo-nazi salutes and heil Hitler comments.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/oct/12/victoria-police-officer-suspended-over-alleged-nazi-salutes-ntwnfb

Nazi Germany committed mass murder on an unprecedented scale. The Nazis and their allies and collaborators killed millions of Jewish people. Please let's not forget that everybody with your defense of neo-nazi symbols and the like.

That's very anti-German of you NathanJ
You know if I stand back and take it all in, it's completely ridiculous.

Israel's an irrational death cult thats gone mad and reckless and is led by sociopathic maniac who has committed genocide in accordance with international law and is still going ahead and committing war crimes in Gaza in Lebanon, in the West Bank, in Syria, Iraq, Iran and Yemen and he's also threatening that he can reach everywhere across the world so we're definitely not talking about a rational actor we're talking about a reckless genocidal entity led by a sociopathic lunatic and backed by the United States.

So we've got that happening, right.
Ever since this bs happened on Oct 7 2023, it's like everyone has been walking on egg shells trying not to offend Israel or Jewish people.

And you people are worried about Nazi salutes?
Hey everyone, lets not offend 'God's chosen people'
It's funny how 'anti-race' only applies to them.
Probably every Jew on the planet needs a NAZI salute right now.
Go get your own house in order, you can't because you're a racist apartheid state that has caused nothing but conflict.
Stop telling us how to live in our own countries.

Israel starts genociding women and kids, blowing up hospitals, apartment buildings, targeting medics, journalists etc. and all you lot can do is lay there on the ground in the fetal position pissing your pants, too scared to say shite.
And what, we all pass new laws that protects the Jewish people from living in fear, when people start jacking up about what they see on the TV?

Give me a break.

If I was to NAZI satute a Jewish stranger it wouldn't be because I want them frightened that someone will hurt them, it's because of what they're nation is DOING RIGHT NOW.

What they're doing in 2023 is worse than what Hitler did in 1939.
WE CAN ALL SEE IT!

It didn't start on October 7.
http://x.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1844645360108700008

I grew up watching TV shows that made fun of NAZIs, you neutered lapdogs.

An Australian police sergeant likely to be charged over a Nazi salute
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/australian-police-sergeant-charged-nazi-salute-114743822
'An Australian state police chief has apologized to the Jewish community after a sergeant allegedly performed an outlawed Nazi salute'

Read differently:
'An Australian police officer has publicly laid on the ground in the fetal position and peed his pants in a typical display of loyalty, regret and public embarrassment for upsetting the pro-genocide Jewish community'.

I think maybe this officer needs some good 'Australian' punishment.
Send him to holocaust education, like they did to the girl at Officeworks.

"He" is actually a "she": a 65 year old woman.

All the fuss about a comical Nazi salute, when the entire Victorian police force actually behaved like Nazis during Covid. Or, rightly the
Stasi, the Leftist version of Nazi. Victorians should be worried about the Allan Stasi government, not a couple of Gilbert & Sullivan Nazis.

Armchair Critic needs to try to control his anti-Semitic hate speech before the hate speech legislation is up and running. Particularly in Victoria, where new legislation banning everything is in the offing.

Female police. Female sailors. In New Zealand a lesbian naval Commander sank 1/6th of NZ's navy on a reef.

On the other hand, the female Italian PM is well ahead of the girly-man Albanese, as she kicks out of Italy Islamists and anti- Semites.

"He" is actually a "she": a 65 year old woman.
_ If that's the only thing I got wrong, well no big deal.
The other things I discussed are probably more important.

"Armchair Critic needs to try to control his anti-Semitic hate speech before the hate speech legislation is up and running. Particularly in Victoria, where new legislation banning everything is in the offing."

- Maybe.
Maybe I should self censor and NOT say what I really think...
And then I can carry on with the fake 'Yay Australia, what a great country we live in' hysteria, as the country slides further and further around the S-bend.

Maybe the laws around antisemitism are just as vague and suspect as these disinfo and misinfo laws.
I've said plenty of things over the years which Jews might not exactly be impressed about, but I've never said anything that wasn't without merit, do you all support putting me before a magistrate on that basis?

Lets cut through the bs...

What if I said 'I hope Iran lights up the sky with incoming warheads and sends this apartheid ethnic-cleansing land-stealing religious-fanatical-genocidal terrorist state back to the stone age.'

Is that antisemitic?
Is it unlawful?

People talk about Iran being a terrorist state.
- But Iran targeted Israel in response to Israels targeted assassinations on its consulate and territory and they didn't kill ANY civilians.

On the other hand, the people you say are the good guys have absolutely no respect for human life.
Think about that.

http://x.com/DrLoupis/status/1844997220573032672

What sort of nation is this, that holds celebratory chicken killing festivals to absolve themselves of all sins - during a genocidal mass slaughter on innocent women and kids, and are conscripting their kids into the military to rule over, subjugate and oppress the biblical amelekites (because its an apartheid state that can't exist without conflict) and it's true religious goal requires the facilitation of land theft.
What sort of person does one become

On the subject of girly-men and wimps who won't defend their countries and their people, I have just this minute read a piece going back to 1985, when Soviet diplomats were kidnapped by Islamist terrorists. The Russians responded by castrating a relative of the Lebanese Shia leader to whom they sent the organs, then shot the relative in the head. The possibility of a nuclear accident was also mentioned.

The hostages were released, and no Russian has since been kidnapped in the Middle East.

Dear Nathan,

«As for the insinuation of 'if they crack down on certain people, say neo-nazis, they'll crack down/silence/ban me', please spare me the rhetoric. It's not going to happen and if anything it's nothing more than hypothetical.»

But it is true.
Neo-Nazis are a minority and so are we, vegetarians.
Today they crack down on one minority - tomorrow it could be another.
They might label vegetarianism as "unAustralian", then order us "eat this meat or I cut off your next finger".

Better suffer those idiots who raise their arm in the air, so long of course as they do not physically touch us.

«Also, people need to be responsible for what they put out»

And indeed they are, whether they know it or not.
Don't you have faith in God's divine justice?

«That being they've fallen for or taken in someone else's lie/false information etc. when they could be getting good quality information provided to them - and learn something at the same time.»

Psalm 1 verse 1 (in other words, Wisdom 101):
"Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers"

- Just avoid social media and all will be well!

«It doesn't all have to be by the Government, but can include people speaking out for example and calling out their appalling behaviour.»

Sure - name and shame them, do not allow them on your premises, do that and may God bless you!

«but it's at the expense of those directly affected by the actions of neo-nazi's.»

Like who?
How can one be directly affected by some idiots merely raising their arms in the air?

Yes, some graziers might be financially affected by us not purchasing their meat, but that is only an indirect effect.

Here we have Armchair Critic effectively wishing my family in Israel dead ("What if I said 'I hope Iran...sends this...state back to the stone age.'")
- so what? Just rumbling so, God will not listen to his prayers!

As stated in "The New KGB":

" There is no dispute about the enormity of Hitler's
Holocaust. But it is equally important to be as aware
of the accomplishment of the Soviet secret police and
the Soviet regime, which brought death to as least four
times as many Russians, Poles, Jews, Latvians,
Lithuanians, Estonians, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese,
Gypsies, and Romanians, as Hitler did in his eleven
years as a leader of the "1,000-year Reich".

While half of the criminals, the Nazis, have been pursued
all over the world for their crimes, the other half, the
the communist criminals, were allowed to go free.

They were, in effect, given tacit permission to continue
the operation of their concentration camps, to expand their
draconian systems to include psychiatric wards, thereby raising
torture, suppression, and murder to a science.

The fact that the process persisted was vividly disclosed
to the West was by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn.

And today, we have atrocities still being committed - in the
Ukraine, the Middle East, and elsewhere around the globe.

The cry - "Never again" should be - never again for anyone.
And if we're going to ban one set of acts and symbols - we
should ban them all not just a select few.

Where do we draw the line?

And what will banning really achieve? It may have the opposite
effect - of forcing activities underground and making them
stronger. It's more effective to have things out in the open.
Where everyone can see them for what they are - spreaders of
hatred and evil.

.

Hi NathanJ

I am not defending the use of nazi symbols – quite the opposite. I just think making them illegal is wrong and counter-productive.

In my dim and distant youth in the UK I was a member of the Anti-Nazi League, and remember waving a banner which equated the National Front to Nazis with the image NF = [swastika].

You can see a copy of the image here:

http://eyeondesign.aiga.org/designer-activist-historian-david-king-defined-a-visual-style-for-the-left/

I don’t think that should be a criminal offence.

Hi Rhian,

All far right organisations and political parties in society develop a common persona regardless of what name they trade under, Nazi, National Action etc, or in Australia One Nation, they all embrace the treats of Fascism and Nationalism. Flags, uniforms, symbols etc, form part of that glorified persona. The far right always love a good marching band!

They are all the same; Authoritarian, Nationalistic, suppressive, regimental, racists, anti-minorities, oppressive, economic and social interventionists, anti-libertarian. The often begin in a fairly moderate fashion claiming to support freedom, democracy, social justice, even liberalism. They generally need a charismatic leader to gain traction, they often feed off other political ideologies such as Conservatism and will to some degree seem reasonable to moderates and a hedge against other extremist, such as Communists. Given the right social, political and economic condition far right radicals will gain support from the general public.

p/s, If One Nation was ever to gain any kind of political authority in Australia, Pauline Hanson would be sidelined in an instant

Hi Yuyutsu,
"Here we have Armchair Critic effectively wishing my family in Israel dead ("What if I said 'I hope Iran...sends this...state back to the stone age.'")
- so what? Just rumbling so, God will not listen to his prayers!"

Don't conflate one thing for another Yuyutsu.
I never wished your family dead.

I have said consistently for an entire year and more that I support diplomacy, negotiations and compromise over conflict.
I have said consistently said that I oppose the killing of innocents.

But I've had it with Israels religious fanatic leaders and their Greater Israel plans, and their genocide, the murder of women, kids, elderly, journalists, doctors, medics, humanitarian aid workers, UN staff, torture, starvation, political assassinations, enless moaning about their dead (they are the chosen ones) but a complete lack of concern for anyone else, because you see the whole world as your enemy, and you know what many are.

If you have a 'God's chosen people' attitude and level of wank*r hubris that surpasses all normal people, it's no wonder you don't make friends easily.

My position is if your family CHOOSES to stay, then they put THEIR own lives at risk, unlike the Palestinians, they can leave, and I genuinely hope for yours and their sake things don't turn out badly if they stay.
As far as I'm concerned your family's lives aren't worth anymore than anyone else's,

The world has tried diplomacy, that didn't work.
Next is military intervention on a basis of human rights, isn't that how it goes?
I copped a year of your lot murdering kids.
Enough to see what type of people the Israelis really are, and it's no surprise Oct 7 happened in the first place when the Abraham Accords would've put an end to a Palestinian State.

[Cont]

As far as I can see the ONLY people defending the lives of the Palestinians kids are Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.

I'm sick of Israel carrying a big stick and putting it's middle finger up to the world and international law.
Right now Israel is trying to starve the Palestinians again.

I support whatever it takes for Israel to stop killing women and kids.
Israel wanted to stop giving the Palestinians food and water.

I'd support a total blockade of Israel.
It's the same rules Israel is playing by.
I wouldn't care if the 5 power plants in Israel were blown up, then their water purification blown up as well, and let your warmongering state wallow in your own stinking sewerage for a while.

- Let your people finally find out that God's chosen peoples shite really does stink just the same as anyone else's.

I don't care anymore if Palestinians and Lebanese do to you, what you've been doing to them.
In fact only when the Israelis pay a price themselves might the Israelis see sense in all this foolishness.

What they need is a good serving of 'regret'.

Israel chose the sword on Oct 8, they can reap what you've sowed or leave.

I never wished your family dead, you drew that false conclusion yourself when I said the state of Israel needs to be stopped in what its doing to innocent people.

Look at the list of things Israel stands accused of.
With a list like that, was Hitler wrong?

It's not my fault Israel is ruled by fanatics.
I made my choice, I stand in defense of the innocent.
Those people who are no longer here to speak for themselves.
- Because of what Israel has done and continues to do.

Sorry, but you can't expect me to put your familys lives above anyone else's so the slaughter of innocents can continue for another year.
It's your job to protect your family, not mine.
If they were my family, I'd be telling them to get on the next canoe out of there.

the ONLY people defending the lives of the Palestinians kids are Hamas,
Armchair Critic,
Palestinians only require defending because of Hamas from what I get to see from the media..
Sort of like arsonists playing hero after they started a blaze.

Hi Paul

I agree with much of what you say about the far right, but would add that most of it applies equally to the far left. They have their uniforms – how many LNP members in Australia do you think wear a keffiyeh? They have flags (usually red). They have symbols (e.g. the hammer and sickle).

They are also authoritarian, suppressive, regimental, oppressive, economic and social interventionists, and anti-libertarian. They too often begin in a fairly moderate fashion claiming to support freedom, democracy, social justice, even liberalism. They also gravitate around charismatic leaders. And they can shade into racism, as the blurred lines between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism show.

I would add other similarities. Both feed on a sense of grievance and victimhood. Both are collectivist ideologies seeing the world through the lens of conflict between groups – national identity and culture for the far right, class for the traditional left, and identity markers such as race, gender and sexual orientation for the “woke” left.

As Foxy has pointed out, Stalin was responsible for the deaths of even more innocents than Hitler. Yet no-one, so far as I know, has called for the hammer and sickle to be banned.

Dear Rhian,

Thank you for another great post.

«how many LNP members in Australia do you think wear a keffiyeh?»

May I note that the first Zionists that came to Israel in the early 20th century wore keffiyehs?

They admired the local Arabs, they wanted to learn from them, to be connected to the land like them, they wanted to invite them to be part of their Zionist project as valuable brothers and sisters, not to kick them out.

The Zionists were then rejected, but not because they were Jews (there were Jews in Israel beforehand too), not because they were aggressive or anything, but because they brought modernity with them, they brought progress, innocently they thought the Arabs would love it and thank them, and thus challenged the rule of Muslim clerics who incited their flocks against the Jews.

Dear Critic,

«I've had it with Israels religious fanatic leaders and their Greater Israel plans,»

So has my family.

«If you have a 'God's chosen people' attitude and level of wank*r hubris that surpasses all normal people, it's no wonder you don't make friends easily»

Agreed - but neither myself nor my family have such attitude.

«if your family CHOOSES to stay, then they put THEIR own lives at risk»

For the time-being, they choose to stay in their homes and farm, near their children and grandchildren, their schools and kindergartens, near friends, near everything they built, planted and accumulated in their lives, their birthplace - not to wonder aimlessly around the world as beggar refugees.

Can you blame them for that?

They meanwhile also work on obtaining European passports, just in case.

«I copped a year of your lot murdering kids.»

MY lot?

Neither myself nor my family killed anyone, let alone kids.

«Enough to see what type of people the Israelis really are,»

Israelis, like Australians, are of many different types.

«it's no surprise Oct 7 happened in the first place when the Abraham Accords would've put an end to a Palestinian State.»

Which I and my family favour.

And who was murdered, wounded, raped and kidnapped on Oct 7?

Mainly peace-loving people like my family, because generally they're the kind of people who live in kibbutzim or attend outdoor music festivals (especially on a Jewish festival when those identifying as Jews attend synagogue instead). Netanyahu and his Nazi fellows' types were few between the victims.

«As far as I can see the ONLY people defending the lives of the Palestinians kids are Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.»

They RUIN their lives, making them miserable, homeless and dead, and when not at war, they oppress their people with Islamic restrictions, especially the women.

«I support whatever it takes for Israel to stop killing women and kids.»

In your mind.
Your attitude does nothing for women and kids, but encourage the Islamists into more violence and pushes Israel into desperate acts to defend itself, including with nukes if needed.

[continued...]

[...continue]

What you actually support, is Netanyahu and his Nazi gang against normative Israelis who only want to survive.

«I'd support a total blockade of Israel.»

My family lives there - how about a total blockade of Australia?

«I wouldn't care if the 5 power plants in Israel were blown up, then their water purification blown up as well, and let your warmongering state wallow in your own stinking sewerage for a while.»

MY warmongering state? Australia?

So you wish my family to have no electricity and wallow in their stinking sewerage - and what do you expect them to do in turn? kiss your bottom perhaps?

«Let your people finally find out that God's chosen peoples shite really does stink»

My family does not need you to "find" that stench they already knew and helplessly smelt all their lives.

«I don't care anymore if Palestinians and Lebanese do to you, what you've been doing to them.»

Yes, do tell me, what have I ever done to them?

«In fact only when the Israelis pay a price themselves might the Israelis see sense in all this foolishness.»

Those who always saw sense, will continue so.
Those who haven't aren't going to change their skin.

«Israel chose the sword on Oct 8»

Israel chose to not surrender. Would you?
On Oct 8, Israel was still clearing its own territory from Hamas terrorists and did not yet even access all its corpses and the wounded.

«I never wished your family dead,»

Israel now has almost 10 million residents.
How many could the land carry in stone-age conditions?

«With a list like that, was Hitler wrong?»

Yes he was!

«It's not my fault Israel is ruled by fanatics.»

Nor mine, nor my family's.

«I made my choice, I stand in defense of the innocent.»

And my family, you claim, are not innocent?

«If they were my family, I'd be telling them to get on the next canoe out of there.»

To Indonesia or PNG, I presume... would you do the same or you wish them to drown?

Hi Yuyutsu,
There's a lot there to think about and respond to.

First of all, I'm sorry about the Hitler comment.
Those people didn't deserve that, any more than these people deserve this.

But do you kind of understand why I said it?
Israels score card is not looking too good right now.

'Israels religious fanatic leaders and their Greater Israel plans, and their genocide, the murder of women, kids, elderly, journalists, doctors, medics, humanitarian aid workers, UN staff, torture, starvation, political assassinations, withholding medicines etc'

How do you think normal people in the world see this?
- And not the religiously inclined Israel-firsters.
Right now the LNP's position is that they support the genocide, ICJ be damned - and they will only support a ceasefire when Israel itself wants one, fun fact.
You do realise Israel has actually been committing suicide, right?

You'll have the Jewish holocaust museum, blame the moustache man
Then you're going to have the Palestinian holocaust museum right next door, committed by Jewish people.

What I said about Iran going to send Israel back to the stoneage, you do realise that this isn't just my 'opinion' right?
It's Iran's stated contingency plans if Israel attacks, which it looks certain to do.

Have you been keeping track of what each side has been saying to each other?
Do you understand that Iran is more or less a nuclear armed state now already?

What if Iran targets Israels power stations, its water treatment and pumping stations, industries, communications towers?

These are Irans plans not mine.
Chances are pretty good that's what will happen this week.

I'm sorry, but there's a limit to how many atrocities I can sweep under the rug, I've seen too much footage of dead kids.
Then I had to see all the tears and crying on Oct 7 like were starting some yearly memorial.
Well here's your memorial:

http://x.com/hzomlot/status/1843562992811774310

This is what the world will remember.
What happens when the war stops, the worlds not going to forget what Israels done.
Jews are the NAZIs now, do you not understand?

Israel could've gotten ALL its hostages back.
Hamas specifically took them to trade for their own.

Israel initiated it's Hannibal doctrine, killed a large part of those 1200 itself in Oct 7 itself.
Then all the lies and bs about 40 beheaded babies.
Just the thing to get the people to support a genocide.

Israel has gotten used to the U.S. protection and have become a horrible nation of hate and death.
It carries the big stick.
Wat's going to happen hen Irans say 'No, screw you'
Then Israel has to try and beat everyone over the head to remind them.
They can't show weakness and must escalate the hate and hostility.

I'm just watching Israel committing suicide.
They are literally driving themselves off a cliff.
You think that somehow all this will end well?

Palestinians are under occupation, they have a provision under international law were they have a legal right to fight their oppressors, and just about every Israeli has done military service and is a reservist.
That pretty much makes most Israelis legitimate military targets.

Israel is an occupier, it has little rights under international law.
But it does have responsibilities including treating the Palestinians with decency whilst under occupation.

I wonder if Israel is going to have to force the Gazans out after all this, how can Israel retain a right to manage the security and welfare of these people, when it's been willfully starving them?

It's like Ukraine, they bombed their own for 8 years, then lost any moral right to rule over them.

China, Russia and the entire global south are against Israel.
They've become the pariah of the world, but they will try to blame everyone else.
And every other nation has to bear the cost of pissed off Muslims.

Australia should send Israel the bill.

Until Israel officially states its border, rejects its biblical land claims and puts an end to the oppression of the Palestinian people, it will continue to have problems and be a cancer upon the world.

As long as this continues, I will stand up for the innocent.

Whether Israel knew about Oct 7 in advance is speculative, but what is certain is that they tried to use it to further their own land theft / genocide aims, not wanting a good crisis to go to waste.

In doing this they sealed their own nations demise.
I said it a year ago, reap what you've sowed.

Israel claims a right to defend itself.
Who has the right to defend itself?
- The occupier, or the occupied?

Dear Critic,

«Israel could've gotten ALL its hostages back.
Hamas specifically took them to trade for their own.»

That is wishful thinking. It would indeed be a dream.
The sad fact is that Israel has got Netanyahu, and Hamas has got Sinwar:

If all hostages were released, then most Israeli people will see no further reason to fight Netanyahu's war.
If all hostages were released, then Sinwar will feel naked without his personal human shield.

Therefore neither allows it to happen.

«But do you kind of understand why I said it?»

Yes, because you watch too much social-media.
It is meant to exaggerate, to make it more "interesting", to lift your adrenalin levels because that keeps you there (so you watch their ads and make them rich).

The reality is far more dull and boring.
The vast majority of people don't want to murder, torture or starve anyone, let alone women, children, doctors and the like.

The things you describe do happen, especially in wartime, but sporadically, not systematically and intentionally:
Israel has of course its portion of psychopaths, like everywhere.
"Religious" Ideological fanatics too, like everywhere.
And the special case of one selfish hedonist, a PM who got in trouble with the law and would do absolutely anything to stay out of prison, including to sell off his country.

«How do you think normal people in the world see this?»

The vast majority of Israelis only want to be safe.
And yes, they will do what it takes, in their honest view, to keep their children out of harms way, even if that comes at the expense of other people's children - that is the evolutionary nature of our genes, it is completely normal.

«You do realise Israel has actually been committing suicide, right?»

Not quite suicide: Israel is being murdered by its unscrupulous PM.

«What I said about Iran going to send Israel back to the stoneage, you do realise that this isn't just my 'opinion' right?»

As you said on page 9, it is your hope.

[continued...]

[...continued]

«Do you understand that Iran is more or less a nuclear armed state now already?»

Yes - then what?

Iran's Ayatollahs will always wish to annihilate Israel in any way they can, they will never forgive Israel because it was the Shah's best ally. Don't delude yourself that they care one iota about the Sunni "Palestinians": a Palestinian state, while good in other regards, will not make a dent in their resolve.

«What if Iran targets Israels power stations, its water treatment and pumping stations, industries, communications towers?»

Then Israel will do whatever it can to avert it.
Maybe it will succeed, may not, maybe something in the middle.
Or, Israel may strike first to turn Iran into a glassy radioactive desert in order to prevent this happening.

The Ayatollahs have their unrelated own motives - the trouble is that you seem to be hoping for their success.

«Jews are the NAZIs now, do you not understand?»

Israel is not just Jews and Jews are not just Israelis.
The whole concept of "Jews" is vague and inconsistent anyway.
Yes, there ARE Jews who happen to also be Nazis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMLxjZ4ZUPI but that does not reflect on Jews in general. You may also want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany

«Israel initiated it's Hannibal doctrine, killed a large part of those 1200 itself...»

That's just false social-media stuff.

«Palestinians are under occupation»

In the West-Bank, yes, but Gazans were not, not since 2005.

«Israel is an occupier, it has little rights under international law.»

Israel is also so many other things besides!
Why select only one property?
Australia too once occupied East Timor and some believe that even now the whole of Australia is occupied aboriginal land - was it therefore justified to bomb all Australian power plants and take you personally too back into the stone age to wallow in your sewer?

Armchair Critic,

<<That's very anti-German of you NathanJ>>

Well some of my Grandparents and other family members are German. I don't know how that makes me anti-German, but I suppose you know better than me.

People must take responsibility and this includes for the actions (and lack of action) of their family members past/present. In some cases you can't call the actions out now as it's all passed (say the killing of the Jews in earlier times) but people like me can call them out now and we can highlight our shame and say sorry.

We cannot erase history. History is not something for people to like or dislike. It is something for people to learn from and if we don't recognise it, we face these types of horrible things happening again.

<<And you people are worried about Nazi salutes?>>

Yes, they are disgusting and people like me actually care about the feelings of others. We understand people find Neo-Nazi salutes offensive and are put off by them as a result.

Neo-Nazi's were at a protest recently regarding refugee support. So it's not just Jews these horrid people will target.

http://www.indaily.com.au/news/2024/09/10/neo-nazis-on-the-march-in-adelaide

<<Israel starts genociding women and kids, blowing up hospitals, apartment buildings, targeting medics, journalists etc. and all you lot can do is...>>

Well you can't speak for me. Presently I:

1. Have spoken out against the actions of the Israeli Government since last year.

2. Will be assisting Palestinians/others in difficult circumstances via assistance/fundraising.

3. Have opposed the lack of affirmative action by world leaders in taking action to end the current violence in Gaza.

ttbn,

<<All the fuss about a comical Nazi salute...>>

Well it's not funny in my view to be making Nazi inspired jokes here. We're not meant to tolerate anti-semitism (and I agree).

Yuyutsu,

Re personal responsibility:

<<And indeed they are, whether they know it or not. Don't you have faith in God's divine justice?>>

Sadly no, as I do not know if people will be hit by such activity. I'd prefer them to held responsible for their actions whilst alive.

Dear Nathan,

«Sadly no, as I do not know if people will be hit by such activity. I'd prefer them to held responsible for their actions whilst alive.»

And most offenders are indeed held responsible whilst still alive in the same body.
You may not find out exactly how they are punished, but that does not mean they get a free ride - who knows, perhaps they will "accidentally" twist or injure the arm they raised and feel quite unpleasant.

The pleasant side of God's divine justice is, that if you haven't given others any similar threat or insult like the Nazi salute, if you have not hurt other people's feelings, then this whole thing of Nazi salutes will remain only something remote that you heard about in the news and you will never otherwise encounter it in your own personal life.

IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

If I recall, they buried 200 cars to hide the bullet holes from the apache gunships...

I support negotiations and compromise over conflict, and I don't support the harm on innocents, but on some level I'm starting to feel as though if negotiations aren't possible and conflict is unavoidable, then on some level I wouldn't be entirely bothered if what Israel was doing to others, was being done to them.

The casualties from Binyamini were sent to 8 hospitals.
I wouldn't support dropping 2000lb bombs and napalm on those hospitals, but if Israels enemies did it wouldn't be unfair play.

After napalming those hospitals, if Palestinians went and bulldozed the homes of those IDF soldiers mothers with them still in it, I wouldn't support that, but it wouldn't be unfair play.

Everything Israels has been doing to them, if the Palestinians did it to Israel it wouldn't be unfair play.

If the Palestinians put a grenade under the hat of every person in the Israeli government and blew their heads off, it would not be unfair play.

I don't want any more violence or killings ESPECIALLY of innocents.
But if Israel wants to keep going, then it will have to pay it's own pound of flesh, and from what I hear it is.

But if Israel wants to keep going
Armchair Critic,
Isn't it Hamas that is hell-bent on not letting up ? To say you're agreeable to a ceasefire is a bit off if you only want it to get time to re-group !
Israel has been saying as long as I can remember that all they want is for the insanity to stop but the rockets kept coming from across the fence !
Does anyone ever listen to the many Arabs living in Israel without any drama ?

Three more reasons why the gene pool needs cleansing !

Dear Critic,

«if Israels enemies did it wouldn't be unfair play.»
«I wouldn't support that, but it wouldn't be unfair play.»
«if the Palestinians did it to Israel it wouldn't be unfair play.»
«blew their heads off, it would not be unfair play.»

For you it seems to be a play - for my family it is not.

«then on some level I wouldn't be entirely bothered if what Israel was doing to others, was being done to them.»

As an Australian with no family in the Middle-East you are not supposed to be bothered anyway, not unless petrol prices here reached $3/litter.

Note your grammar: "Israel" is in singular, but "them" is plural: French princes of the Louis dynasty used to have a substitute boy - when the prince did something naughty, the substitute was flogged...

«I don't want any more violence or killings ESPECIALLY of innocents.»

Neither do I, nor my family, but who ever asks us?

Hi Yuyutsu,
Your position is, 'You don't care how many Palestinians die so your family are safe'
- I can respect your position, but my position isn't based only on your familys interests.
I'm looking at the bigger picture, unfortunately death seems to be a by-product of your former nations leadership, and maybe part of that nations DNA as well.

I'm not going to condone war crimes on other humans for the sake of your familys safety only.
Saying I want Israel regime destroyed for the harm they've been committing on others does not necessarily equate to saying I want your family dead.
I already told you I don't support harm to innocents.

It's exactly that reason why I want Israel to fail.
For me, too much harm of innocents.
For you, maybe not so.

Dear Critic,

«Saying I want Israel regime destroyed for the harm they've been committing on others does not necessarily equate to saying I want your family dead.»

Fair enough, I would like that outcome too, but can you find us a way to have that regime destroyed without having my family destroyed as well (and still living in their homes, not as refugees somewhere else in the world)?

Can you also find us a way to have that regime destroyed without depriving the rest of the world of the positive great things that are produced in Israel?

«For me, too much harm of innocents.»

Harm befalls both innocents and not-so-innocents, and many in between
(that is in the mundane, human-observable sense: in truth, when also taking into account the invisible inner workings of the universe, no harm can ever come to anyone who is truly innocent).

That dispute will never be resolved but it can be confined to the Middle East if those people weren't allowed out of the country & permitted to create problems wherever they go !

I'm not going to condone war crimes on other humans
Armchair Critic,
'Then stop supporting the crimes that lead to war !

My previous word limit met, so I add the following:

Rhian,

<<In my dim and distant youth in the UK I was a member of the Anti-Nazi League, and remember waving a banner which equated the National Front to Nazis with the image NF = [swastika].>>

As a vegetarian, I can buy a range of things like vegetarian chicken, vegetarian bacon, vegetarian sausages etc. Now, I don't buy them as I feel as a vegetarian you should celebrate the vegetable, fruit, plant, lentil etc.

So, what might be something "which equated" is not the same as something which is exact and used for purposes to expand, push or drive in this case Neo-Nazi activity.

To put it into context, my vegetarian bacon for example is not same as bacon which comes from the animal which involves pain and suffering (alongside death) at the animal end. They (or what you refer to) shouldn't be compared as bluntly they are not the same thing. Not even close.

So, if someone uses something which has an equation to it, or similarities at a Neo-Nazi end, they are not the same and should not be put into the same basket. They are not the same, nor are they comparable. Also, the reasons for using them will be different, so also not comparable.

Yuyutsu,

Re personal responsibility my post would have been better saying:

"Sadly no, as I do not know if people will be hit by such activity."

Honestly I don't know if Neo-Nazi's will be hit by things such as God's divine justice. I have seen no evidence.

For those affected by the actions of Neo-Nazi's, something noticeable to deter Neo-Nazi activity will be accepted by more (as seen to deter negative activity against others).

I don't know exactly what to include there as I generally don't like prisons or anything too harsh against people. I'd prefer people understand that engaging in Neo-Nazi activity is not a good thing for them and others and that they stay away from such practices/actions in the first place.

Dear Nathan,

«Honestly I don't know if Neo-Nazi's will be hit by things such as God's divine justice. I have seen no evidence.»

Well of course nobody has empirical evidence - that is a matter of faith.
That is not a far stretch because you already have faith that eating animals is bad for you.
Either you accept the words of scripture and the sages as evidence or you don't.

But note that nobody will be judged for being a Neo-Nazi alone, only for hurting others, that is for example if one's Nazi-salute actually hurts the people present around.

«For those affected by the actions of Neo-Nazi's, something noticeable to deter Neo-Nazi activity will be accepted by more.»

That is if you generally believe in deterrence:
Deterrence SEEMS beneficial because, with effort, you can indeed deter specific others from doing specific things.
Yet there is no way you can deter God from handing you back your just punishment when you so deserve, this way or the other, thus all that effort you might invest in trying to avoid pain is for naught. The wise just accept their pain as God's gift in the same way that others accept only their pleasures.

«I don't know exactly what to include there as I generally don't like prisons or anything too harsh against people.»

Neither do I.

So if you decided to take the path of deterrence, then one thing you could do is to name, shame and avoid them socially; and the other is to refuse the provision of goods and services - and so long as we still have laws, the law should allow people to refuse to serve criminals.

As an individual you should be able to prevent them from entering your shop or taxi, etc.; as an employer you should be able to sack them; and in the case of extremely serious criminals, even an ambulance driver should be able to refuse to take them to hospital and police officers should be able to refuse to register their complaints.

«I don't know exactly what to include there as I generally don't like prisons or anything too harsh against people.»
NathanJ,
There doesn't appear any "too harsh" as it doesn't deter them. As for prison, I assume you refer to those facilities where inmates get better conditions than most old age pensioners can only dream about. They're most definitely no deterrent !

I hear reports a lot of Israels are upset that Netanyahu wasn't home when the drone hit his house.

Dear Critic,

Indeed, what a miss!

Had the drone been successful, the Israeli hostages and their families could re-unite.

You should read the comments in Israeli media, openly grieving that they were not at home.

The elected Israeli opposition obviously cannot say it openly, but their silence is deafening.

Now more resources will be allocated "to protect symbols of governance", which means less iron-dome coverage for ordinary citizens.

As the comments say "and the poor ordinary citizens will die in their apartment-block staircases" - "why won't Netanyahu hide in his staircase instead?"

What was the point of this exactly?
What is a person thinking when they do this?
I hope none of the Pro-Israel side ever tries to tell me the Palestinians are taught to hate.
I shall reply with the following video evidence and tell them 'For damn good reasons it seems'

http://x.com/AnasAlSharif0/status/1847352625974399346
>>Extremely difficult scenes:
An Israeli drone targeted a child with live ammunition in one of the streets of northern Gaza.
When citizens gathered to rescue and assist him, they were hit by a direct strike, turning them into scattered remains.<<

Palestinians are taught to hate.
Armchair Critic,
Isn't that obvious ?

Hi Indy,
They asked this U.S. General recently:
'What if he was born in Gaza?'
[Would he cop what the Palestinians cop and not fight back]
- He stated openly that he most likely would be a member of Hamas.
As in - No, he would not be willing to cop that.
http://youtube.com/shorts/0lk1aRQUUPQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_A._McChrystal

If our neighbour was doing to Australians what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, me thinks there could be a tad of resentment towards our neighbour, even dare I say it, HATRED!

Question; Should the 'Star Of David' be added to the list of offensive symbols, along with the Nazi swastika?

Hamas and Hezbollah don't need a recruitment drive for new members, Israel is doing an excellent job for them, as it is.

Would he cop what the Palestinians cop and not fight back
Armchair Critic,
But the Israelis should cop what the Palestinians do ? Israelis haven't as yet gone to America or Europe blowing up things along with people, Palestinians are doing it as we speak & have been doing so for several generations ! Israelis return to Israel to defend their land, palestinians run away & stir $hit wherever they go. That's why even Arab Countries won't take them in.
Explain the difference please !

"But the Israelis should cop what the Palestinians do ?"
- Yep, that's the price of admission.
Just as the aboriginals tried to spear us once upon a time.
It's certainly the price of occupation.
"Israelis haven't as yet gone to America or Europe blowing up things along with people"
- They don't need to, they own the U.S congress.
"Palestinians are doing it as we speak & have been doing so for several generations!"
- As they should be. They have a legal right to fight their continued occupation.
The hostages aren't technically hostages you know.
The Palestinians in Israeli prisons are closer to hostages, the Israelis in Gaza are closer to prisoners of war.
"Israelis return to Israel to defend their land, Palestinians run away & stir $hit wherever they go."
No, they are religious Jews from Brooklyn who go to Israel on aliyah to steal Palestinians land in the West Bank and to kill them.
Yes the peed off Palestinians that have come to the West become our problem, I don't particularly like them being here and I don't like some of the religious stuff they pedal.
But it's all for a problem started by Zionists.

Palestinians wouldn't be here to whinge and hate the West if the the West didn't largely support and align itself with the things Israel does.

I don't support Israels right to exist as a racist aparteid state engaged in ethnic cleansing.
These are not secular western values.

The only real difference between me and others is that I have the ball to say it.
I don't want these angry Palestinian Sunni Muslims with animosity in my country, but I'm not going to support turning those same Palestinians into fertiliser in their own nation because it furthers the aims of the Eretz Israel crowd.

As they should be. They have a legal right to fight their continued occupation.
Armchair Critic,
Outside the crazy Middle East is not a legal Right, it's terrorism !

I don't disagree with you, look at England now.
If the government can't protect the borders then the people don't have a country.
But these same governments have been undermining things in other peoples neck of the woods.

Armcchair Critic,
So much education & good will & general enlightenment gone into these countries has done nothing & obviously never will !

If by "public display" includes those idiotic hero WW2 American & British war movies then yes, I support this but otherwise no, particularly if it is done in jest !

Hi AC,

"If the government can't protect the borders then the people don't have a country."

The conditions of today have not developed by accident, its a case of "cause and affect", the sins of British colonialism are now coming home to haunt them. I had a cage full of angry dogs, ones I baited and abused everyday, things were fine while I kept the cage secured. Oh sh!t! someone left the cage door open, and the savage dogs are out, and they're coming after me. Its not my fault!