Major disruptions have hit city centres across Australia as tens of thousands of tradies walked off the job today in protest against the forced administration of the construction arm of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU).

Regardless of what you think of the CFMEU, the bigger question for me is are unions still relevant in 2024? I mean most people look after themselves employment wise and a lot of people have dropped out of Unions as the membership fees are so expensive and you have to decide - a Union membership fee versus putting food on the table.

Then Unions are still linked to the ALP (Labor). For some, Labor isn't their thing, so they don't want a Union as a result, which is also understandable. I think Unions have to be open to supporting all political parties - including the Liberal Party.

There are no doubt positives to Unions though like better pay and conditions and better working hours. So, there are some pluses, but I'm not sure if that's enough to draw people in - and the recent CFMEU thing may turn some people off joining a Union.

They are just some of my thoughts - what about yours?

Hi Nathan,

The short answer is yes, unions are necessary. Just as employers have their "unions" to act in their interests, so to employees need an organised voice to act on their behalf. Whilst ever there is the possibility of anti-worker conservative governments being elected in Australia, as we had for almost ten years, with deliberate anti-worker policies, with their suppression of wages and conditions in favour of their support base, the employers, unions will be necessary.

Both sides in the industrial debate need to take a modern conciliatory approach, and by-and-large that has been achieved. The bad old days, modelled on the British system of industrial confrontation with its "class warfare", has mostly been replaced in Australia today. BUT there are still renegades on both sides, and they raise their ugly heads from time to time.

Some numbers....

Less than 8% of those employed in the private sector are in unions.
Less than 6% of those in part-time employment are in unions.
17% of those employed by governments (the public sector) are unionised.
Overall 12.5% of all employed are in unions.

So unions have very little relevance to the average Australian except those in somewhat more unionised sectors like construction (and we can all see how well that's going!!) and mining.

Given that the majority of unionists are now employed by the various governments, it seems that the main function of the union movement today is to lobby government to transfer more wealth from the workers in the private sector to those in the public sector.

Relevance? -not much. Get rid of them? Why -who cares? They are a minor irritant these days, a drag on the economy but only a minor drag. There are exceptions like the CMFEU but we've know they are highly corrupt all the way back to Builders Laborers Federation in the 1970s and I suspect we'll be saying the same thing in 2070.

So unions have very little relevance to the average Australian
mhaze,
?? Are you seriously suggesting that the disruptions, the excessive pay demands etc etc aren't of relevance to average Australians ?? You know all of these things that make employing people unaffordable & make life unaffordable for many ? Did you know that over 200,000 Australians are moving out every year because of these ruined economics ? I don't think you need to be enlightened as to whom Union-pandering Labor is replacing these qualified & useful citizens with ?

The fact that only 12.5% of Australian workers were members of a union in 2022 answers your question, Nathan.

Unions have to be open to supporting all political parties
NathanJ,
Or categorically none but then anything can be written & said & acted upon differently.
I agree that your suggestion has the most merit if merit can still be reintroduced that is !
Mentality is the hardest thing to change hence all the problems society is constantly faced with !

Hi Nathan,

You ask:

Unions - are they still relevant in 2024?

Speaking from only a personal point of view - I've never
had the need for union membership. I've worked in both
private and public institutions.

However, it's only fair to remember that the rights many
people enjoy at work were won because workers came together
in trade unions and fought for them.

There are situations where people are not capable of
communicating with management about their working terms and
conditions and they can't argue against bad management
practices.

We should note that things like the minimum wage, equal pay
for work of equal value, paid holidays, hours of work,
anti-discrimination laws, parental leave, health and safety,
and so on, are things unions have fought for. Also, having
someone in your corner helps many.

Whether unions are still relevant today? I guess that the enormous
turnouts that occur when either nurses, teachers, transport workers,
construction workers or any others, turn out and go on strike
answers that question.

Yes they are still relevant today.

And will continue to be.
Workers will continue to come together if they are mis-treated.

"Workers will continue to come together if they are mis-treated."

Well they mustn't be mistreated all that often. A mere 1 in 8 workers feels the need to be protected by a union and that number has been falling for 40 years with little to indicate it won't continue to fall.

If that's true where do all those crowds come from when they
appear on the news and media - pictures of them -
going on strike, like - police officers, nurses, teachers,
health workers, construction workers, transport workers,
et cetera? The crowds are not small

Yes, most unions brought about better conditions & that was good. But as the old saying goes "too much of a good thing is no good" !
That's the point we have reached a few decades ago !
Wars too have made some things better but not all.
My only gripes with unionism is that once they delivered better conditions it resulted in the atrocious imbalance of pays/salaries that are now becoming the number one dilemma for our society ! We've reached the point where unions are needed again, unions that fight for the insanely high & insanely unjustified salaries for bureaucrats with such an obvious lack of merit !
We literally need Anti Union unions !

"Australia's union laws are restrictive by historical
standards. This has caused major problems across the
labour market."

"Legislative changes in the 1990s imposed significant
limits on union access to workplaces, which drove a
sharp fall in the proportion of workers who are union
members from 33% in 1995 to 12.5% in 2023."

"Legal restrictions on unions' workplace access have
directly contributed to the significant rise of wage
theft where employees pay workers less than what they
are legally entitled to."

There's more at:

http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/07/17/stronger-union-rights-can-mean-more-productive--sustainable-work.html#:

Hi Nathan,

Just a bit more information:

"Research conducted by Prof. Alex Bryson at the University
College London and colleagues have found that unions can
improve worker engagement which can help companies
to innovate and adopt more productive practices. Collective
voices provide workers with power to negotiate fair wages
and conditions."

"Workers who feel they are treated fairly are more likely
to be satisfied and less likely to leave their company.
According to the OECD by giving workers a collective voice
unions can contribute to " lower turnover and longer tenure
which can reduce hiring and training costs and increase
productivity."

Of course as stated earlier" Australia's laws are restrictive
by historical standards - which have caused problems across
the labour market."

There's more at:

http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/07/17/stronger-union-rights-can-mean-more-productive--sustaniable-work.html#:

Oooops. My apologies for the typo. Here's the link again:

http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/07/17/stronger-union-rights-can-mean-more-productive--sustainable-work.html#:

"If that's true..."

If that's true? Struth.

These are figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. So yeah they are true.

But if you don't want it to be true, then it isn't? Isn't that so.

mhaze,

I didn't mean to question you old chap. I gave the
same figures myself - had you bothered to read
my posts. The difference between us was - I explained
why the figures happened to be what they were.

Calm down.

Some people just can't answer a simple question asked of OLO posters without referring to organisations that have nothing to do with OLO. You either think that unions are relevant or you don't think that they are relevant.

What the Sydney University thinks is definitely not relevant: for posters who think for themselves, that is.

" I gave the same figures myself - had you bothered to read my posts."

You used the same figures AFTER I'd called you out. So I had read your posts BEFORE I called you out, I'd have found someone questioning the accuracy of the numbers based on protest crowd sizes. Same old Foxy.

Still its nice to see you are sometimes capable of learning.

So with unions representing around 1 in 20 private employees, (and those numbers don't include self-employed) we find that they have very little place in the day-to-day lives of those people.

Its not so for public employees who use unions to extract more funds from government who then raise taxes on the public employees, but that's called being fair in Labor circles!!

People are affected by the strikes and go-slows from the public sector unions but I think most people simply mark that down as part and parcel of how government works.

mhaze,

As Donald Trump would say,
You're a fantastic knowledgeable well-informed poster.
Great, really great.
Really terrific.
Other posters, especially females,
Losers, total Woke-Left-Wing Marxists.
Believe me, Everyone here agrees!

Struth!

mhaze,

BTW:

I was the first one who gave a link containing all the
relevant information. So you have to share the "glory."
You didn't win this race - we ran side by side.
Although I didn't realize this was a competition.
The Donald is certainly have an influence.

The political extreme attack trade unions as unnecessary, and then attempt to remove them from society, seeing unions as being opposed to the state ideology of authority over all, and therefore a danger to state authoritarianism. You can see that's the message being peddled on this forum from the Usual Suspects. Nothing new, Hitler and Stalin were of the same belief.

Workers clearly don't want unions anymore. So, why the hell would people who don't work - us - want them!

It's beyond believe how some humans cling to so much wrong as being right !
For such mentality one would have to have attended Uni because no natural degree of stupidity could achieve such levels !

The CFMEU is to unionism as child abuse is to the Catholic Church. Like the Catholic Church, unions have done and continue to do good things for people. Their essence is one of greater bargaining power for employees. I don't see that as a bad thing and the fact that Elon Musk hates them can only be an endorsement.

There are some people here defending Unions, some of the comments fair, but me some of them are not.

A Federal Greens member of parliament has defended turning up to a CFMEU rally recently, despite protest signs with words such as "Albanazi".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-28/greens-leader-defends-mp-cfmeu-rally-attendance/104281238

Quite frankly that's appalling. What ever you may think of the current Prime Minister Anthony Albonese that's one thing, but attending a protest rally where he is compared to Neo Nazi Germany is plainly disgusting.

The criminal activity also alleged against the CFMEU is also very serious. It's not something to take lightly. I wouldn't be supporting them at a protest rally like we have seen with some MP's lately. There are more important fish to fry and people in need of support - and that includes building workers who are not Union members.

I agree the CFMEU are not the majority of Union members potentially involved in criminal activity as put out in the media, but regardless if what they have alleged to have done is true - there's no way I'd consider joining or supporting them.

I think The Greens have picked the wrong piece of fruit to eat here.

"You didn't win this race - we ran side by side."

No Foxy you were the first to question the figures based on your perception of photograaphs of protests. You won that dubious race.

But to your credit you were the first to realise your error. So....well done.

Hi Nathan,

In general I agree with your comment, not that the Greens MP should have address the rally, but I don't think someone in the crowd should be painting Albo as Hitler, although they may feel strongly about the issue. Yes, like any large or small organisation there can be "rotten apples" in the barrel, unions are no exception. Having said that I agree with the principles of unionism, and the fight for workers rights.

p/s A case in question, over $40 billion illegally owed in unpaid superannuation.

where he is compared to Neo Nazi Germany is plainly disgusting.
NathanJ,
It was spellt Albanazi not Albaneonazi ! Still, not nice just as not nice as his Modus operandi !

There is a need for 'unions'.
However, they must be carefully controlled by their membership.
Just as governments are (hopefully) controlled by the people.
And unions need to be far more open to scrutiny.
Just as democratic governments are.
At present they appear to be a hub for all kinds of illicit behaviour.
I am relying on the veracity of news reports when I say this.
The government, which is the ultimate controlling body, has moved to do something about it.
They could not do otherwise.
And we would expect no less of them.

Ipso Fatso,
I go along with that !

Just as democratic governments are.
Ipso Fatso,
Missed that one earlier, it's just plain wrong ! Of course I only have Labor to go by & the Democrats In America !

Hi IF,

Interesting you say; "they (unions) must be carefully controlled by their membership."...."Just as governments are (hopefully) controlled by the people."

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but I assume its only an inadvertent admission on your part that you don't say business, big and small, should be under some control as well. I see business as a key element of the economy and society in general, do you not believe left unchecked they can be a danger to society, just like unions and government?

I think it is a matter of 'level'.
Business is higher up the 'chain' than the workers are?
Government is above business.
Unions are needed to control the possible 'over-zealousness' of business.
In its excitement, business might neglect the welfare of those 'below' them.
If further control of business is needed, government are the ones to do it.
They are the next level up.
However, control of business is also achieved by those who buy goods.
Consumers can make or break a business.
And the people also control government?
So the people, collectively, control everything?
Unions are a small part of those people, who are charged with a specific task.

Hi IF,

What you say is harking back to the bad old days of a class riddled society, with the idea of levels, capital being higher than labour. Where I believe in a more complementary society with labour and capital work together for the common good, with government playing a necessary regulatory roll. The idea that capital is simply regulated by the "free market" whilst labour is controlled is disastrous.

Universities - should they house their 70,000 foreign students themselves?

Hi AC,

Are you in favour of "sorority housing" on campus at the college, can I suggest the movie "Revenge Of The Nerds" as a handbook guide as to how they should operate.

There wouldn't be a shortage of student accommodation if students were only accepted into Universities on merit to study !

Indy,

Always on the attack, targeting anyone not like you! What a sickening attitude you have, some old fart who begrudges others a fair choice at life. Yet you have your snout well and truly planted in the trough. Leave young people alone, they don't deserve some old bloke with his warped opinions targeting them all the time.