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The Forum > General Discussion > The great renewable energy paradox

The great renewable energy paradox

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"However, Climate Depot is known for its denialist stance, often using selective data to support its arguments. "

Do tell. So it should be easy to show where their data is wrong.

Personally I try to never evaluate the message based upon the messenger. I prefer to look at the actual data. I've looked at the data on this issue in several locations over the years and always find the same trend. More renewables equal higher costs. The link I showed just summarised this rather well.

We keep getting told that there are special reasons why costs are going up all around the world as the percentage of renewables goes up. Just wait and then we'll see the costs come down as promised. Even, or especially, the adherents to this fairy-tale buy into the fantasy which is why Albanese et al were confident in predicting lower electricity prices within three years of their election. I notice no one is mentioning that any longer.

Here's another prediction. Come 2035 they'll still be telling us that cheaper electricity is just around the corner.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 27 July 2024 7:29:54 PM
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John,

The paradox for me are the contradictions of making electricity more expensive by introducing the cheapest generation sources into the grid and making electricity cheaper by introducing the most expensive generation source into the grid. How is that possible?

The sales pitch to the punters was always one of power prices dropping from the moment wind and solar was introduced. Now it seems we still need a few decades, vast expense and massive environmental destruction to achieve the goal of having cheap power from wind and solar.

To me it sounds like a version of a Nigerian scam, where the promise of a return is always about to be delivered, but minor problems keep popping up which always seem to keep the reward tantalisingly out of reach. You might think, "It's cost so much but I am so close.", but that is always the worst decision to make.

"Saying that renewables always drive up grid costs isn't entirely accurate."

Not accurate when hydroelectric and geothermal are your main sources of power, but totally accurate where wind and solar are concerned. Look at South Australia: Further along the wind and solar road than the rest of Australia and power prices 50% higher. Shouldn't the prices be lower with all the extra wind and solar?

All Australians will have to look forward to are higher power prices, dead koalas and the destruction of our natural heritage for as long as this wind and solar madness continues.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 27 July 2024 8:30:31 PM
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The existence of any "renewable energy" goes counter to the laws of thermodynamics.

There being no renewable energy, both statements:
1) "All renewable energy is cheaper than non-renewable energy" ; and
2) "All renewable energy is more expensive than non-renewable energy"

Are True!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 27 July 2024 9:11:25 PM
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"Given their long-term benefits, it’s incredibly short-sighted to entirely dismiss renewables over the understandably-higher costs involved during the transition phase."

Transition phase? Wind and solar are the cheapest generation sources. CSIRO's gencost report say so. So why should there be a transition phase of higher prices with wind and solar instead of power prices dropping suddenly when you introduce prohibitively expensive nuclear? It makes no sense John.

"Decreased reliance on imported fuels and opportunities for innovation and job creation in the green energy sector, as just two examples."

The fuel savings are probably from economic damage due to all the industry leaving or not investing in Australia because of higher energy prices, and sadly all the green jobs aren't materialising.

"The environmental impact of renewable construction is a valid concern, but pales in comparison to the ongoing damage caused by fossil fuels."

Unlike wind and solar, fossil fuels provide cheap and reliable energy that powers the high living standards of human beings today. The only "transition phase" for human beings using fossil fuels has been a remarkable improvement in longevity, quality of life and prosperity. By all means replace fossil fuels with something better as that will benefit all, but nowhere in the world has a wind and solar transition delivered cheaper power. Maybe one day, but you cannot benefit from something before it exists.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 27 July 2024 9:37:58 PM
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Oh dear. Look at AEMO now. South Australia, the state leading the way to our wind and solar Nirvana, is generating nearly 90% of its power from diesel and gas and is drawing over 150 megawatts from Victoria. Its power price is up to three times that of other states.

https://aemo.com.au/en/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem

"Evaluating the overall cost impact of renewables on the grid is reasonable. While integrating renewables may initially cost more due to grid upgrades and storage investments, these lead to long-term savings and greater energy security. "

John, have you ever heard of amortisation? It means that you depreciate an asset over a period of time such as its economic life span. The implication is that your capital costs are spread over the life of the asset instead of hitting you from the start. This is what happens with nuclear, with power prices staying the same or falling, so why do power prices steadily rise when wind and solar are introduced? You might also note that the CSIRO Gencost report did not add any hidden costs to fossil fuel generation, yet wind and solar were still found to be the cheapest generation sources.

I'd also question how a generating asset could contribute to our energy security when it sits idle for most of the time and could be destroyed by a hail storm?
Posted by Fester, Sunday, 28 July 2024 8:01:41 AM
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Sun shine is free, that is a big start to supplying power, Ass storage power is set up the input will even out. Dutton inflaming the roll out of solar does not help the transition timing. ALbo promised we would have cheaper power in 2025, as long as finances roll in as planned with out interruption from those not in power. Transition lines are needed as pylons have disintegrated in SA + Vic as they are 70 years old + and need replacing along with the wiring of years gone by. The 1960's when first pylons went across vic, and caused the same imaginary problems as today. Some people do not like wind turbines in their vision. no one owns vista. Sky news says the destruction of farming property, some will like them as an income and others will not as they get no income. Sheep and goats say they are the bees neez of shelter. The destruction of farming land is caused by housing development not solar.
Posted by doog, Sunday, 28 July 2024 4:40:41 PM
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