Currently, Australians who prefer to use plastic and other digital means of payment are losing $960.26 million a year in surcharges. And, so far, not all businesses are putting the surcharges on.

Just wait until there is no cash, and they will be all at it.

And, although we should be paying less to use a debit card, according to the RBA’s analysis some merchants appear to now be charging the same percentage surcharge no matter what the card or device function used.

The charges are a percentage of the purchase, not a flat rate.

The Australian Treasurer, in a letter to me, advised that "Larger payments carry higher risks and merchant 'service fees' are typically higher as a result".

Nonsense! Higher surcharges won't make payments less risky.

The main "risk" will affect older Australians, many now living into their nineties and living independently, who don't have a computer, a smart phone or even a debit/credit card.

But, even for the 'young and beautiful', I cannot understand how they can meekly accept that everything they buy will be more expensive without cash.

In the United States and Europe there is no charge for using cards. In part, that’s because the UK and the European Union ban card surcharges.

What will an Australian government do? Probably give us all $300 of our own money to cover the surcharges and keep their Big Bank, Big Business mates richer and happier.

On Friday my wife and I made a rare trip to the city to ID my dead brother in the morgue. My wife's Cabcharge card didn't work. Fortunately I always carry cash. Would would have happened, I wonder, if I didn't have cash.

On the trip home, the Cabcharge did work, highlighting the fact that technology is not always reliable; unexpected things can happen, apart from blackouts, outages etc.

ATM's are being steadily removed. There is now only one near me, and I have to pay a $3 charge to use it because it is not operated by my financial institution.

Dear Ttbn,

Indeed, life is gradually becoming unbearable.

The number of things I can no longer do is on the increase.

«and I have to pay a $3 charge to use it because it is not operated by my financial institution.»

This is easy to fix: I have accounts in several financial institutions (and it costs nothing), so when I visit a place with such an ATM, I first transfer the money from my regular account to the appropriate financial institution.

Yuyutsu

Life is too complicated to be switching accounts around.

All this cashless rubbish will certainly be worse for older people, whom Australian society doesn't much care about, busily replacing us with young immigrants who can't speak understandable English on the phone. Who is going to try to sort things out over the phone if complaints need to be made or advice sought, when it's all done by people in Calcutta or, worse, people who have come here from Calcutta to do jobs arrogant, entitled but dumb young Australians don't want to do.

Problem solved: no complaints.

Still, we oldies will be dead soon, and the young ones don't seem to care about anything much.

During the Covid epidemic, Australian state and federal governments took our trust and converted it into a licence to brutalise and assault.

They are using the global warming/climate crisis/man made/carbon dioxide scam as a way to control us, while ruining the economy, the environment and our standard of living.

Then there is their digital ID, censorship of what we say, do, see, read and write - and the intended removal of cash.

The removal of cash is just another example of a totalitarian shift in a country that some poor fools are still calling "the best in the world".

With both the worst government ever, and the worst opposition ever, there is not much hope for Australians, who have probably left it to late to start noticing what is happening - even if, by some miracle, they ever will.

The cashless idea is just the latest, but probably not the last threat to be dreamed up by the Australian political class. We had Covid tyranny, the climate scam, the just passed digital ID, Julie Inmam Grant, mass replacement of the population. There is no reason for hope.

"Currently, Australians who prefer to use plastic and other digital means of payment are losing $960.26 million a year in surcharges. And, so far, not all businesses are putting the surcharges on.

Just wait until there is no cash, and they will be all at it."

The banks seems to have this game all stitched up.
The money is firstly borrowed from them into existence with interest payable.
- And then we'll all have to pay rent on top of every transaction to use it.

VISA charges is like paying rent to the Americans just to use OUR OWN MONEY.
VISA charges may as well be an multi-national western tax already.
I'm sure the bankers can afford to buy off a few politicians and push the legislation through.

Maybe we should make like BRICS and find alternative payment methods and systems that don't syphon off our money to foreign shores every time we buy a pie from the local bakery or some toilet roll from woolies.

"With both the worst government ever, and the worst opposition ever, there is not much hope for Australians, who have probably left it to late to start noticing what is happening - even if, by some miracle, they ever will."

It's not altogether the Australian peoples fault.
All our western nations are essentially under the assault of rich elites and globalists - multinational businesses and bankers etc.
With no allegiance to country.
- All geared and in cahoots to siphon off the wealth of the masses unto themselves, and to maintain their own wealth, power and privilege.

They will send us all to die in wars if that's what it takes to maintain their position, taking entire nations with them.
And if the wars are lost, well wars and national debts are good for business, they won't have to fight them, and they will find a way to capitalise off the conflicts, and they can always bug out to some foreign country... like their own island in the Bahamas or something.

Or buy some other small country somewhere.

Democracy is just a tool to control the masses and steal from them.
And make foreign wars for wealth and power, under the cover of 'humanitarianism'.

Here's a story of todays events that will get your blood goin ttbn,
Ex-gf rings me up a short while ago, she's pretty livid, needs to vent.

Says she just picked her 9 year old daughter up from school,
Kid was forced to participate in an 'I'm Sorry competition'.
- All the kids had to write an 'I'm sorry to the indigenous' essay;
And the best essay wins, I'm not sure what the prize was, I'll ask.

Also says the kids are forced to take part in a 'Welcome to Country' event of sorts every morning, paying respects to the traditional people of the land...

I guess they probably do the same kind of thing to promote the climate agenda too.
'Essay on Climate Change' competitions.
Learning becomes indoctrination, no room for the kids to question.
- They risk getting in trouble if they do question,
And top marks for the most woke, great education system

Sorry, all I see is a bunch of old fogeys whining about the new technology.

The Spinning Jenny wouldn't have stood a chance around Luddites like this lot.

Mhaze,

So, you are OK paying extra - i.e contributing to the already $964 million to banks - on top of the price of whatever you buy - for zilch?

I sometimes use a Visa card when it's convenient. I'm not dead against the idea. I just don't like the surcharge - certainly not one that increases with the amount spent. Europe and the US think the same way.

I didn't have you down as one of the brain-dead Australians who accept anthing the ruling class lobs on them.

dearest beloved mhaze,

I agree with you for a change, the Clampetts one and all, and it was Granny Clampett who started this thread! One of em' said he searched all over town, and there's not a general store selling spats and straw hats anymore, and he was will'n to pay 10 shillings for dem! AND he refuses to ride around in one of those newfangled horseless carriages, he said; "Give me the good old grey mare any day" and they refused to let him ride into town with dem der city folks and der... auto--mo--beals!

Dear Critic,

«Kid was forced to participate in an 'I'm Sorry competition'.»

Did she go to a government-funded or subsidised school?

- He who pays the piper calls the tune!

An illustration of just how bad Australia is becoming.

In Communist China, authorities are cracking down on the rejection of cash, which “disproportionately affects the elderly”.

China’s central bank has recently fined companies, KFC among them, for rejecting cash payments.

It is illegal in China for merchants to reject cash; whereas in the “best country in the world” they can refuse to take cash if they please.

"Did she go to a government-funded or subsidised school?"
- It was a Queensland State School.

http://x.com/EmStarrTHISxoxo/status/1794966000041144559
>>I AM GENUINELY SO FURIOUS RIGHT NOW.
And I mean ABSOLUTELY LIVID
I just picked up Miss9 from school.
She told me on the drive home what happened today, and she was not a happy kid.
A non-indigenous white teacher came and took her whole class out of their classroom to the library, and proceeded to bombard them with
"National Sorry Day".
They were told amongst other things, how they all need to be sorry to the indigenous people for what happened to them.
If THAT wasn’t bad enough, here’s the kicker.
Every single student was FORCED, and I DO mean FORCED, to write “I’m sorry” letters/posters to the indigenous people, and WHY they are personally sorry.

And if THATS not bad enough, the teacher has made A COMPETITION out of their “sorry letters”…whoever makes the best sorry letter or poster from each class GETS A PRIZE.

Now thankfully, my kid is smart enough to know she’s got nothing to be sorry about. And she knew that something wasn’t right about it, which is why she told me.

Believe you me, I will not take this.
I was not informed my child would be exposed to this woke indoctrination.
I absolutely did NOT consent.
This is absolutely abhorrent.
How DARE some woke white teacher FORCE my child to write an apology letter as if she had done something to be punished for.
There’s going to be hell to pay.<<

Her tweet has 39,000 views.
There seem to be other people saying similar things are occurring.
She's a member of One Nation and will likely make sure Pauline Hanson is aware of the situation, if she's not already.

- Similar story this afternoon -

Aussie dad unleashes at school after his daughter was forced to make a group apology to the Stolen Generation
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13462627/Aussie-dad-unleashes-school-daughter-forced-make-group-apology-Stolen-Generation.html

What the hell happened to the 'No' vote?
Obviously some people didn't take the referendum result seriously.
- Typical lunatic progressives, law unto themselves.

AC

You have gone right off the reservation. I just hope the ‘silent majority’ is more interested in being ripped off by Big Banks, Big Business and political arseholes than OLO posters are. They whinge about the cost of living and blame supermarkets for increased prices - just as Arsenese wants them to (it distracts from what he is up to) but they are OK with digital payment charges putting up the price of everything via surcharges as a percentage of what they spend.

I wouldn't piss on those posters if they were on fire.

But, I will comment on your totally unrelated-to-the-topic post.

What happened to the kid and her classmates was a bloody disgrace. But, you know what? It happened, just like a cashless society will happen, because Australians are gutless wonders who let our political scumbags walk all over them.

And do you know what else? I don't give a flying f…k. Australians have the rotten government they deserve, and I won't be around long enough to suffer like they will suffer because of their cowardice and apathy.

And while we are off the topic, I have just learnt that the WHO crackpot, Teddy the Tosser, has failed to get his his world government-like pandemic treaty across the line.

AC,

Still off-topic, have a look at this ‘truth telling” about the aboriginal nonsense kids are being force-fed in government schools.

https://youtu.be/K-13oF45PZs?si=BTnIap19_HfAhBse

Dear Critic,

«Every single student was FORCED, and I DO mean FORCED, to write “I’m sorry” letters/posters to the indigenous people, and WHY they are personally sorry.»

This is classic child abuse and I am not sure it to be not worse than of the sexual kind.

That teacher will be forced to write billions if not trillions of "I'm sorry" letters, down in hell where she will go once she dies, that with arthritic hands!

Meanwhile, it is the parent's responsibility:
1) not to send their child to such a government-funded school.
2) to teach their child at home that the regime and the teachers it employs are an enemy, not a friend, and that she should tell her little friends that are not fortunate enough as herself and sent to such schools, that they should never believe them and not be afraid to disobey the evil teachers there.

---

Dear Ttbn,

«Life is too complicated to be switching accounts around.»

Life is indeed getting more complicated and miserable with the forcing of "technology" on us, but I was not suggesting that you switch accounts, only hold several in parallel with different banks. You can do it online even if the bank has no branches around you, most banks do not charge you anything to have a standard bank account and you can always keep $1 in each, just so it remains open.

"You have gone right off the reservation. I just hope the ‘silent majority’ is more interested in being ripped off by Big Banks, Big Business and political arseholes than OLO posters are."
- Maybe it was worthy of a thread, sorry.

Cashless societies, First point - big business is in cahoots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Meeting
"The Bilderberg Meeting (also known as the "Bilderberg Group", "Bilderberg Conference" or "Bilderberg Club") is an annual off-the-record forum established in 1954 to foster dialogue between Europe and North America. The group's agenda, originally to prevent another world war, is now defined as bolstering a consensus around free market Western capitalism and its interests around the globe."

One thing I noticed was that they used the pandemic to further push this cashless agenda.

A lot of the multinational fast food chains have apps.
They originally had cash payment options, but during the pandemic the option was removed and was never brought back.
These 'apps' have special offers; if your living on a budget or just being frugal, the offers can save money, but you can't get access to them if you don't pay electronically.
- So there's a 'trend' to link special offers to electronic payments.

People can save a lot of money these days with online deals, over and above what you pay from a retailer with a shopfront;
All these online deals you see for example - are all linked to electronic payments.

Then we have these new payment systems like afterpay, zip-pay etc.
There's a fee to the merchant, but using the services leads to increased sales.
Do the retailers inflate the price (and profit margins) of their products in order to cover the potential costs of these new payment services?

Regards the kids having the indigenous 'education' crammed down their throats, interesting sometimes that you get Aussie news from a foreign news source (dailymail.uk) but the Aussie media isn't reporting it.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a big blow up about this stuff in schools in the coming days or weeks.
It must have to do with this 'National Sorry Day'
http://www.reconciliation.org.au/national-sorry-day-2020/

The kid I shared the story about, she's pretty cluey.

I told her yesterday, she's not responsible for things that happened before she was born.
She doesn't have to be sorry for something that she hasn't done.

I told her it's ok to feel sorry for what happened to indigenous people, but she doesn't have to be sorry in a way that implies she was responsible, and she doesn't have to feel guilty for something she didn't do.
- But I think she pretty much knows that already.

The pale-skinned little redhead used to play with indigenous kids including boys anyway.
She's neither a racist or an uncaring, hateful kid.

Hi Yuyutsu,
"Meanwhile, it is the parent's responsibility:
1) not to send their child to such a government-funded school.
2) to teach their child at home that the regime and the teachers it employs are an enemy, not a friend, and that she should tell her little friends that are not fortunate enough as herself and sent to such schools, that they should never believe them and not be afraid to disobey the evil teachers there."

1) Every now and again mum carries on about wokeness overreach in the schools and considers home schooling, but there's pro's and cons.
She can't afford the cost of private school education.
In some ways it's better that kids aren't shielded from everything going on in the world, but state schools aren't always a good or safe place, especially nowadays. This kid has a fully devoted mum who wont allow the school system to fill her head with crap, she makes sure her daughter is well grounded when it comes to all these modern day agendas.
2) I'm not sure she teaches her that the teachers are all the enemies, but she does teach her daughter that's there's more to all these agendas.
The kid is one that genuinely wants to be good and do well.

When I told her the things I explained in the previous comment yesterday, "You don't have to be sorry for something you didn't do" she was hesitant to say those things in the classroom as she doesn't want to get in trouble.

But she's smart enough kid to already know that school doesn't teach you everything.

The big heads who describe as "Luddites" people who disagree with, or who are genuinely concerned about, the growing use of technology are either very forgetful or very stupid in ignoring the recent blatant examples of the unreliability of technology. Optus. Banks. Shops. ATMs: blacked out and useless. No cash - no business.

Then there are the soaring cases of internet fraud and scams.

Technology is just as unreliable as renewable energy is. But hey, keep sneering, when you take your heads out of your arseholes long enough, and she'll be right, mate.

ttbn,

The surcharge you pay isn't imposed by the banks. The banks are providing a service to the business you deal with and charge them for the service. If you've every worked in a place which is cash-dominant, as I have, you'll understand why all businesses rush to get EFTPOS machines as soon as they are available.

So the business gets a valuable service from the bank and pay the bank for that service. Welcome to capitalism.

Now some, maybe most, businesses seek to pass that expense onto their customers. Welcome to capitalism. Said customers aren't required to pay the surcharge. They can either elect to pay in cash or seek out a business that doesn't charge the surplus. Its not like its a secret - all businesses that charge it are required to post the fee in their premises.

So what you're really complaining about is that you want the convenience of being able to walk into any store you like, use the most convenient form of payment, (ie card) which is provided at a cost to the store, but which you think you should get for free.

That's not how the world works.

I don't like surcharges either and would prefer to not pay them. I find Sunday surcharges particularly annoying, given that Sunday is hardly an unexpected event. But I realise that the business incurs extra costs on Sunday and if I want them open on Sunday I have to pay for that privilege. Welcome to capitalism.

ttbn, the world is moving on. You personaly may not like it, but it doesn't care.

Between 2017 and 2023, 2,100 bank branches were closed across Australia.

A Senate report found that although use of cash is declining across the economy, cash and face-to-face banking services remain important in regional and remote areas, during times of crisis and by the vulnerable, elderly and disabled.

The report advises a mandatory banking code of conduct, similar to one already in place in the UK (Australia lagging and indifferent as usual) making access to financial services an essential service.

Even RMIT agrees that banks should consult with communities and seek “regulatory approval” before closing branches.

The UK has a "three-mile rule": banks are required to provide free cash services within three miles (4.8km) for rural residents and one mile (1.6km) for urban dwellers. Banks failing to provide a minimum standard of service are fined.

Anyone who thinks that this is government interference in private enterprise needs reminding that banks and other private enterprises now regularly interfere in politics.

The services need not be provided by a bank building, or by ATMs, but shops could be utilised. Supermarkets in some rural areas in Australia already have ATMs, as do some petrol stations.

Australia really has to lift its game. The way for voters to have influence is to put all sitting members last on the ballot paper at the the next federal election. No matter who they are, what they say, they are responsible for the mess Australia is now in.

mhaze, you said; "worked in a place which is cash-dominant, as I have"

I'm trying to think of businesses that are cash-dominant, hummm, the illegal drug trade, Slack Freddy's Take-Away with the motto "No GST For Me" maybe its Dodgy Dave's Plumbing, "Cash In Hand Forget About Tax with Dodgy Dave". I'm on the dole and ripping off the government working for cash part time at Slack Freddy's Take-Away, and the rest of the week off-siding for Dodgy Dave the plumber.

"I'm trying to think of businesses that are cash-dominant,"

Don't try to think tooooo hard Paul. Your body's not used to it.

It was a confectionary store. The owner, a friend, was hospitalised and laid up for three months, so I took over for her.

Average sale was $3.17. Mostly kids spending their pocket money or mum's loose change ie cash. It did take card, but in those days the fees on small transactions meant it wasn't worth doing it for anything under $10.00.

There you go. You can stop thinking and go back to normal.

Good on ya mhaze, helping out a friend like that. When I was a kid I probably came into your Lolly Shop, remember me, I remember you the grumpy old bloke behind the counter, wearing a white apron. I was that kid who took half an hour to make up his mind how to spend sixpence. I'll have one jelly baby....how much are they?....one musk-stick.....how much are they? Ahhhhhhhhhhh!

"hospitalised and laid up for three months" I hope she wasn't over indulging on the Freddo Frogs, that can be dangerous.

Maybe the distribution of cash should not be in the hands of private banks, by default.
It's a government responsibility, so it should be managed by a government department.
Maybe there should be a government owned bank, which uses post offices as its branches.
That way the question of the closure of privately owned bank branches (a business decision for a privately owned company) is disconnected from the issue of the basic and essential distribution of cash.

Hi AC,

Would that be like the government owned Commonwealth Bank, that proved too competitive for its private competition so they sold it off for a song. Then there was a string of government owned State banks which were also sold off for the same reason.

Maybe it's not the government sellouts at work here anymore than the banks themselves who don't want the government to have a snout in what they consider to be their own private trough?

Well, if as it is reported, and most people prefer not to use cash, they deserve everything they get. Government has them by the short and curlies once again. There are words to describe people who think it's OK to pay more for digital payments than for cash payments. 'Stupid' is the mildest word that comes to mind. They are certainly more stupid than people in the UK, US and Europe where surcharges are outlawed.

Too stupid to know that there are 4 million disabled people in Australia, plus 4 million elderly people who have difficulties with technology. But, of course, the stupid ones don't care about that: they just jerk-off over smaller trendy minorities that are just as dangerous to democracy and freedom as the removal of cash will be.

The current per capita recession might affect the ‘inability’ of traders to absorb the cost of electronic payments. Retail growth is the lowest for three decades, at 1.3%.

Retailers might have to adapt. But they are more likely to be as stupid as some OLO posters, and go broke.

Whatever they do, they will deserve what they get.

ttbn: Your complaint about cashless payments costing society more (in monetary terms) are rubbish. The reason why people use cashless payments is because it costs them *less*.
For example, in the case of businesses:
1) they don't have to physically handle the large sums of money which reduces expenses and risks concerning security and physical banking,
2) cashless transactions reduce bookkeeping costs since everything is electronically tabulated and also
3) it increases customer throughput at the till since a simple tap-and-go payment is way faster than manually handling cash.
In the case of the customer it is:
1) faster at the till,
2) they no longer have to waste time at the ATM or bank, and
3) it can assist with budgeting since we now have personal apps which help tack exactly where/how/when they are spending their money.

The big problem that I have with cashless payments is the privacy issue. Your bank (and any 3rd party that your banking contract allows) knows exactly when and where you shop. And additionally, since the banks know then the government may potentially also know your spending habits. And this is the reason why I mainly use cash- even though it is an inconvenience to me.

I suppose there is no point in expecting any common-sense about anything when a nutcase politician - Premier Jacinta Allan - appoints a Junior Minister for Changing Men's Behaviour.

A bloke called Tim Richardson has the job of straightening out Victorian men.

Once again, dopey Victorian voters are getting what they deserve.

Meet the Victorian MP tasked with changing men's behaviour
http://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/melbourne-mornings/meet-the-victorian-mp-tasked-with-changing-men-s-behaviour/103906188

I've just listened to half of an 11 minute podcast.
Initially the concept offended me (and it still kind of does)
Even though it sounded a little woke I was encouraged by something he said as I've been thinking the same thing.
Here's what I've been thinking, and it sounded slightly similar to something Richardson said in the podcast.

Men can't allow women to dictate this path forward.
Men need to find ourselves the role model of 'the perfect man'
- Otherwise that idea will be dictated by women.

There also needs to be an equal 'Changing womens behaviour' program.
Having it one sided implies only one side is causing the problems, and while one side may be more violent, that side sometimes gets there because the other side is more manipulative.
Women still fight, they just do it in a different way.

Thingss are becoming so complicated that both sides almost need their own handbooks of how to act.

The eventual biggest losers of a cashless system will be those supporting its introduction !

The lack of Internet security is the number one handicap for a cashless society !

Dear Critic,

«But she's smart enough kid to already know that school doesn't teach you everything.»

I also never expected school to teach me, I knew exactly why I go to school - to save my parents, so they are not taken to jail.

Home schooling was not legally an option at the time, nor any private schools. Still, my mother taught me chemistry and statistics, my father taught me maths and astronomy, the rest I learned from books and encyclopaedias, here and there also from an uncle or aunt.

My parents explained me about this law at the age of 5,
that all children must go to school, and if they fail to go, then police would come and take their parents to prison.

Fair enough, I had no other expectations, I knew exactly why I have to spend that many hours a day suffering, sitting bored with arms folded in class pretending to listen to things I knew long ago, then in between, before and after, be beaten and stoned by the other children. I knew and accepted that this is life and this is the price I need to pay for having a Mom and a Dad, rather than losing them and being taken into an orphanage which is 1000's of times worse.

One good thing, however, was the way to and from my first school - one kilometre walk through an open field and a forest. I always enjoyed that time on my own out in nature.

«Maybe the distribution of cash should not be in the hands of private banks, by default.
It's a government responsibility»

I agree that the function of the creation and distribution of money should be in public hands.

Just, "public" need not be synonymous with "government".
What we need is independent institutions which are truly generated by the grassroots public and for the grassroots public, rather than imposed on us by hostile, predator governments.

Sounds like you had an interesting upbringing Yuyutsu.
The being 'beaten and stoned by the other children' part doesn't sound like it was much fun, though.

Cashless society

Why won't either of our leaders with baked bean size testicles just come out and commit to cash?

6 December 2023

“Today the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has authorised the main users of cash including banks, retailer providers and Australia Post to undertake industry discussions ensuring cash remains readily available to all Australians.”

The Australian Banking Association said that it would “ensure that people who need or want to use cash can still get access to it”.

At the time it was reported that “there has never been more banknotes in circulation at any point in Australia’s history”.

“As Australians, we are using much less cash, but we will not be cash-less any time soon.” (ABA).

“Cash continues to be a very important way for many people to pay for the things they need either at a local pub or bakery and even very low cash users rely on it when eftpos systems experience an outage including in natural disasters or times of crisis.” (Treasurer, Jim Chalmers).

That was only last year. What has happened since? Has the Albanese government copped out and allowed the loud-mouthed bullies with their own agendas to call the tune?

Once again we must ask: ‘who is running this country?’

Not a single institution can guarantee security for a cashless system !

A recent survey shows that people spend more when they go cashless. Not on tips or charities though.

Handing over cash is more “salient”. If nothing physical is handed over, “it is easier to lose track of how much is spent. And, many people refuse to take a receipt of their electronic payments to reconcile with their bank statements, the dills.

(An Adelaide university study, published in the ‘Journal of Retailing’)

Not that OLO big senders, sneerers at people who are deemed to be “behind the times”, and general nongs who don't mind being ripped off would care.

Aged welfare, make it cashless with food stamps etc to "spend" at the government store. Old folks can't handle cash anyway money confuses them.

There is something I do not understand about this topic.
If I buy a goods, I pay $x for it.
If I paid by credit card or other system I see from my accounts I
still pay $x. So where do these charges come in ?
Are they built in to the advertised price ?
If so I would prefer my local supplier to get it, so pay cash.

On another matter if a shop says no cash, cards only and I offer
legal tender and they refuse it, can I just take the goods and say thanks !

Baz

Perhaps you have been lucky so far, buying from traders who don't attach the surcharge. Recently, my wife spent $946 and was charged a $13 surcharge, or 1.4% of the purchase price. I use my financial institution's app, and the amount was displayed with the surcharge separately beneath the amount of the sale.

She paid for paying!

Again, if you pay just the price of goods, you have not been hit with the surcharge. Make the most of it; because, if cash disappears, and there is no longer any point on being competitive, they will all be bunging the surcharge on.

And, of course you can't take the goods if cash isn't an option. You just advise them to put the stuff back on the shelves, and walk away.

Better still, when you go into a shop, first look at the checkout area, where they should have notice of their payment preferences, and if there is a surcharge for using electronic payment. The law says that they must do that.

If, as some of the know-nothings on this site say, that going cashlessness is more convenient and CHEAPER for a business, why are they putting on a surcharge? Miserable greed, is why - and the mugs are letting them get away with it.

Something else. There is supposed to be a difference between the surcharge on credit cards and debit cards (where your own money is used). However, it has been reported that the high amount for the credit card (the banks money) is also being charged on debit cards.

Australians are being made poorer every day by the Albanese government. Australians are letting them get away with it because well, hey what can you do about it.

Business is also making us poorer, but we can do something about that. No cash - no business. Go where they do take cash.

If you do need, or want to use a card, it should be illegal for traders to add a surcharge as it is in Europe and America.

While I'm on about the poor quality of our politicians and their lack of interest in us, their employers, I'm going off topic to mention a headline I've just seen: the Liberal Party begging Labor to put the Greens last in the coming election.

WTF! It is up to voters to decide their preferences, not the Liberal Party or any other party. But, we know that the politicians and media have made the drones think otherwise. Sadly, dopy voters are as much go blame as government, the media and corporations for the shite country Australia has become.

ttbn,

Maybe you're not aware, but HTV's from political parties are no more than a guide, or put it another way their preferred preference. As for putting the Greens last, that would promote the Fascists and Nazi's from the likes of One Nation up the list, and possibly see more of them joining the Lovely Pauline in the Senate, people who have no affinity with Labor principles to begin with, and would combine with the Noalition to vote down Labor's agenda. The reality is Labor needs the Greens far more than the Greens need Labor.

Paul

Still having reading problems, I see.

I said: “WTF! It is up to voters to decide their preferences, not the Liberal Party or any other party.” So, yes: I'm aware. It's you who is not aware of my awareness.

I have no way of knowing how many voters are too lazy or too disinterested to use the preferential system intelligently instead of voting the way particular parties want them to. But I do know it's enough to keep us supplied with some of the worst politicians in the democratic world, election after election.

As for putting the Greens at the bottom, of course it will put all others closer to the top. That's the idea of preferential voting.

Who comes out on top, no matter what you think of them, forms a government. Unfortunately, it will be either Labor or Liberal, hopefully without the influence of the Communist Greens, who have just shown themselves to be anti-Semitic lunatics whom even Albanese the Trot now blanches at. The Greens have crossed the Rubicon; gone beyond the pale.

ttbn, if I offer legal tender and they refuse to accept it, so what
I tried to pay with the national currency so whats their complaint ?

Another example, I pay a number of bills using Paypal one being Coles
a couple of times a month and the bill total is exactly what I put to
Pay Pal and is exactly what is deducted from my account.
So if the charge is there it must be in the shelf price of the goods.
My reason for using Paypal rather than credit card is because I do not
have to spray my card details everywhere I buy on line.
I paid my car insurance with NRMA $888 and the same is deducted from
my bank account.
I had an ANZ card but they put charges on once a year so I turfed them.
It is still a mystery to me.

ttbn,

From my experience qith scrutineering formal votes at election time in the past, around 80% are as per HTV's. You can also determine how preferences flowed by comparing the primary vote to the final two party preferred result.

As for the red neck apologists in Australia for Zionist genocide in Gaza, oh dear they are getting all upset, getting their nickers in a knot, dear oh me, with the Greens calling for compassion for the innocent people of Palestine, I like many don't give a damn what the grubs on the reactionary side of the fence might call for, or don't call for. In fact, if the grubs heckles weren't raised like they are then The Greens are failing in their duty.

Baz

The irritating fact is that they do not have to accept cash, and you would be charged with theft. Sorry. But that’s the way it is.

We have to rely on the banks’, including the RBA's, assurance that they will make cash available as long as people want it, and there are shops that will accept cash.

Not all businesses are anti-cash. Many of them take electronic payments because customers want it. There is nothing “inevitable” about cash disappearing anytime soon, just because certain blowbags say so.

Paul

I accept your assertion that 80% of votes might be as per the how to vote card; and that is why we are in the mess we are in, and why the majority of people deserve what they get.

Paul 1405 is the only poster here who openly admits that he is a member of the Grubby Greens, and he seems to be quite proud of it, saying a few posts back that “ …. Labor needs the Greens far more than the Greens need Labor.”

Well, it's true that our worst government ever wouldn't exist without the Greens but Albanese might have to take heed of Dutton’s suggestion to drop them if he wants to keep his job. Back-benchers and other Labor politicians are not as thrilled with the Greens as he is. ‘Scum’ is a description uttered privately - and publicly by one retired ex-Minister still loyal to Labor.

I've have a feeling that the appalling leadership and disgusting attitude on Israel and just about everything else might be about to bite them on the bum: starting with this article this afternoon:

(The Greens) are, “A successful political machine with a bottom-drawer agenda and a dark past most Australians would find alarming” …. with radical policies for every part of government aimed at undermining Australia’s freedom, security and prosperity”.

The Greens “ want to pull down our borders, defund our defence forces, increase taxes on working Australians, and side with terrorists like Hamas.”

The Greens have Albanese by the short and curlies; far from helping him, they look like dragging him down.

ttbn,

You fail to attribute your quote to a named source, so given your propensity to push the extremist far right agenda of the One Nation party, did it come from that quarter or something similar. Anyone can claim something without authentication like; "One Nation has an agenda to establish concentration camps for the re-education of political prisoners" end of quote.

Paul

No. I haven't attributed it to anyone. It's something that I agree with. That’s all. It supports my opinion of the Greens, and revealing the source would not help you or have any effect on you.

One thing though: it doesn't involve Pauline Hanson. You are more interested in her than I am. I don't like any politicians, and I get my information from writers and commentators who know what they are talking about - unlike the average dumbcluck, self-serving Australian politician.

ttbn,

You often advocate on this form for a vote for Hanson's One Nation party, it tops your list of alternatives to the big two. If its something you agree with then the quotation marks are not required. Aside from that at least you don't hide your political leanings, declaring yourself a "conservative" as you do.

Tip from Yahoo Finance this morning - if you are trying to save money, pay in cash.

“The cashless effect is the phenomenon of spending more money but also buying more products when paying by cashless methods - whatever they are, it could be credit cards or BNPL schemes - in comparison to cash”.

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/expensive-downside-of-going-cashless-revealed-212341858.html

ttbn, actually there is another threat to cash.
Armorguard is in financial trouble because not enough money needs to
be moved around.
If they go broke the banks may not have cash anyway !

Baz,

A week ago the Treasurer was saying that the government is committed to cash and moving it around the country, “even if Armaguard goes into insolvency.

We need to remember that it is non-government actors talking about the “inevitably” of cash disappearing at this stage. Lots of opinion; not much in the way of facts.

Its inevitable, with the advancement of technology a totally cashless society will become the norm. Today cash handling by business is not free, they charge the customer through higher prices for the cost of handling cash, so they will charge for paperless transactions in the same way, its called, "the cost of doing business". of course its very hard to convince these old Luddites that, that's the reality.

According to 7 News, cash withdrawals are increasing.

30,859,700 ATM cash withdrawals in February, representing a 3.6% increase in withdrawals in February 2023. (Reserve Bank data)

The $9 billion of withdrawals are the highest since 2020.

A backlash against the bullies?

An aside: Western Australia has caught up with South Australia by stopping gamblers using credit cards. Many years ago I witnessed a barman in Port Adelaide telling a woman that she couldn't get money for the pokies with a credit card.

Dear Paul,

«Its inevitable, with the advancement of technology a totally cashless society will become the norm.»

I just hope to be dead by then.

Yuyutsu

Only people who have no say in anything use the word 'inevitable'. Governments are not saying that cash will disappear; nor is the RBA. I have presented above information to that effect.

Every time you see something about the economy and read about it, images of people handling banknotes - not plastic cards - are used.

But whatever happens, it won't be in our lifetimes; and I hope that the smartarses and the increasingly ignorant young will learn the error of their ways. It won't be our problem. Isn't that wonderful!

I recently started withdrawing a bit of cash every time I pay for groceries at the supermarket, and I've been pleasantly surprised by the sense of freedom and privacy that now comes with using cash for purchases.

Even more surprising is the unexpected feeling I get that I am somehow doing something "naughty." I suspect this stems from the perception that those who use cash are seen as having something to hide; when they're not old enough to be considered technologically challenged, at least.

It seems to me that the initial embarrassment cashiers express, after presumptuously offering the EFT machine to customers wishing to pay with cash, is slowly being replaced by a raised eyebrow. After all, why would I have cash in my wallet if all of my recent transactions were legitimate?

Dear John,

I never felt that I was doing anything wrong of even "naughty" when using real money - it is the lazy young generation who are at the wrong, who abuse nature and personal human relationships with their "technology", bringing forward the rule of computers.

My big hope is that a large magnetic storm in the sun will burn up all electronics on earth - a storm of such magnitude and directed towards earth happens at random every few centuries.

All sorts of things can, and do, go wrong with technology, as we have all seen recently; but the goldfish memories of most people don't register events ten minutes after they are fixed.

According to ‘The Strategist’, 99% of Australia's traffic relies on undersea cables, which “ ... enable everything from e-commerce and online banking to telecommunications and cloud computing”.

Threats to these cables are “real and growing”, from tsunamis, earthquakes etc., and through HUMAN ACTORS.

A hostile actor (three guesses as to who) could sever Australia's connections to the world. They can also syphon off data.

Have a read: https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-achilles-heel-of-a-digital-nation-australias-dependence-on-subsea-cables/

ttbn,

Thanks for the link to that informative article. While the geological consequences of targeting such bottlenecks would be far too great for a country like China to bother with at this point in time, I have no doubt that Russia would feel they had far less to lose.

Though not so much a bottleneck as undersea cables, our growing list of smart devices (which even include cars now) make us increasingly vulnerable to cyber warfare. A sudden, widespread, and severe-enough attack on smart devices would not only cause a significant disruption, but could even prove deadly.

Strange times indeed when hanging on to your mechanical watch, and investing in a carburettor-driven car could serve as a shield against a growing threat as big as China. You'd also be one of the only people with a functioning watch and a working car should Australia become like a Mad Max movie.

Of course, that should be, "geopolitical consequences."

Cashless only if financial institutions & Govts guarantee total security by coughing up compensation !

Dar Indyvidual,

«Cashless only if financial institutions & Govts guarantee total security by coughing up compensation !»

That means NEVER.

Because:

1) Total security does not and cannot exist in this universe.
2) Could anyone provide "security" against THEMSELVES?
3) How could anyone compensate for the failure of all (or even most) electronic systems?

Yuyutsu,
Exactly !

Politicians are the greatest threat to our security, closely followed by gormless Australians who keep voting for them.

Another 6 day Telstra outage in WA has caused problems for the cashless chumps.

ttbn,

"gormless Australians who keep voting for them (politicians)". Who do you vote for? The chimpanzee candidate from One Nation, in that case you could hardly be accused of voting for a politician.

Yuyutsu, it is an unrecognised problem.
Some like me when a severe outburst from the sun heads our way disconnect our antennas, just to be cautious.
So if the underseas cables are damaged some communications are still available.
I am sure the government via the ADF will have made provision for HF
communications.

Dear Bezza,

This phenomena is well recognised, even weaponised: http://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/legacy/Documents/Pubs/320-090_elecpuls_fs.pdf

When a severe magnetic storm from the sun is directed straight towards this planet, the undersea cables may remain intact, but all electronic circuits on earth will fry - starting from the most modern ones where the distances between metal semi-conductor lines on the silicon chip are smallest: HURRAY!

Older devices like electrical typewriters, electrical sewing machines, fridges, manually-operated diesel generators and even radios from the 1960's with transistors so large that they are visible to the naked human eye, will likely survive.