continued to Daggett

The reason why international kids are put before ours is simply. The vast wealth of some of the overseas students familes and the fact that most of those students do actually want to go to uni to clear makes them attractive.

Instead of the hecks and other loans which I am in two minds about they instead pay up front and pay well for a year in advance.

So I am sure you can see the attraction there if you are in the industry.

That is a good reason why Governments should not have got involved clearly putting themselves up as targetts of conflict of interest. However education world wide is a huge industry and having the upper hand being able to offer extra lerks they couldnt resist.

If you are a International IT student you are pretty much garanteed your PR within weeks of completeing your studies. With that comes a medi care card centerlink payments and assistance to find IT jobs. they are in fact very much favoured.

There are many other lerks and perks and they know more about them than the Aussie kids do and are put first. All this is information given to them BEFORE they enter Australia.

I am sure now you can understand why IT students and others wish to come. We can hardely blame them.I am down on these uni bludgers of ours that prefer to go there than work. I am also annoyed by the fact the real kids who WANT to study to do something with their lives miss out because overseas kids have taken their spot and that happens a lot.

However in this day and age when kids world wide expect everything on a spoon -I prefer to put Aussie kids and IT jobs first before overeas kids from wealthy familes that can easily afford to pay a year in advance.
Darn right they are taking our kids IT jobs. No question about it.
Most Government are Labour so theres something for UNI kids to chew over.

"my point as to why this country's suppsedly brilliant economic managers have allowed circumstances to develop"

Daggett, in answer to your question, the big picture problem has
existed all along, thats why Keating, Costello started to change
direction. If they hadn't, things would have only gotten worse.
Fact is, we cannot live in isolation from the rest of the world,
thats the reality.

Australia has always relied on mining and agriculture for its
wealth. Inefficient manufacture was propped up by these industries,
so it was dragging them down. A tariff protecting one industry
means a cost to another industry, making it harder to compete
globally. It also means higher costs to consumers, the main
beneficiaries of globalisation.

Its not up to Govt to create new industries, they usually get it
wrong. Thats up to private enterprise, people, entrepreneurs, etc.
All the Govt can do is create an economic climate for that to
happen, which means lower interest rates, reduce red tape,
wiser Govt spending etc. Billions of $ of taxpayers money used
to be used just to pay Govt interest payments. Costello changed
all that.

As to the future, there certainly are some manufacturing
industries that are adjusting to the global economy. Ferries
are a good example, we export them around the world. There are
a few other examples. Services is another area where we have
gone ahead. But converting from a backward manufacturing sector
to a globally competitive one, is not over by a long shot.

As to IT, 10 years ago you'd be battling to make a phone call to
India on a line that actually worked. Now you have Bangalore
and more and more IT done in India. Workers in India benefit
and consumers in Australia benefit

PALE: "I am sure now you can understand why IT students and others wish to come. We can hardely blame them.I am down on these uni bludgers of ours that prefer to go there than work. I am also annoyed by the fact the real kids who WANT to study to do something with their lives miss out because overseas kids have taken their spot and that happens a lot. "

Bizarre. I take it that this is the official view of "People Against Live Exports and Intensive Farming"?

Equally bizarre is the garbled language in which an internally inconsistent diatribe about education - of all things to do with live animal exports - is argued.

Another positive effort for the animals!

Yabby

You raise the excellent point that Australia needs to follow a strategy that will most likely lead to its prosperity. Now Belly has posed the question of how to cope with the skilled worker shortage. I have suggested that cutting immigration would free up a large number of skilled workers who are otherwise employed building the infrastructure and housing necessary to cope with a larger population. It would carry the bonus of transferring skilled workers to jobs that benefit Australia's trade balance from jobs which worsen Australia's trade balance.

Australia needs to follow the best strategy to ensure the prosperity of her citizens, and more likely than not it differs from what you, I, Belly et al think is best. What we dont need are zealots dismissing the evidence because they know better. Too much of that happening in the world.

Belly

The property and construction industry is a very powerful lobby group, and it does advocate higher immigration rates. And with a resultant drop in property values from reducing immigration, people might be able to pay more for quality.

Morgan
We prefer not to recieve posts from yourself and thought we went mad that clear in the past.
However our family runs an International School in Australia so I would know a bit more than you about this particular subject.

We actually considered sueing the QLD State Government and considering the Principles are also lawyers I should think they knew a bit more about the industry than it sounds like you do.

You can get a fair bit of this from the internet if you care to study it.
Start by doing a Googles under MOUs with overseas students. Its not just IT students either its Science and many others.

I have personally hosted what they term PR parties.

These are considerd by many bigger than birthdays because its a one off thing.

The medi care card is passed around and actually you cant help but get mixed feelings because at least they appreciate the free health care.

It is really importnant to them and sometimes you just cant help but feel happy for them and that maybe they deserve it more than some of our own who dont know how lucky they are to have lived in such a wonderful country their whole lives.

Many of them get jobs and fly back to India or wherever after the first years for their arranged marriages then come back. They fly back usually about a year later to be married then apply to bring the wife to Australia and start a new life and a new family in a new country.
They are just so happy to be here live here and work here. You cant help but like them with their excitment over things we take for granted.
However that doesnt change the facts.

The facts are our Government encourage these people because their familes pay in advance intead of most of ours want to borrow.

They are promised work if they study certain subjects.

That does take our kids jobs.

Please do not address a post to us again.

You have been far too rude in the past.

Yabby,

I see quite a few logical leaps there and the usual well-worn catchphrases.

"Its not up to Govt to create new industries, they usually get it wrong."

How so?

Did they get it wrong before WW2 where they turned Australia from a country based primarily on rural exports to a technologically advanced nation as I have shown in the the thread "View discussion Can Australia ever be self-reliant for national defence?" at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=860 and above at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1040#18599.

Would you have us believe that if our country had gained an 'internationally competitive' edge back then by only building its primary industries as you have suggested that we would have been able to deter the Japanese invasion?

Did they get it wrong when Australia had a world leading telecommunications sector prior to the industry's deregulation by the Keating Labor Government (see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6326#92911)?

It is hard work to maintain a manufacturing sector in a relatively small country in a world full of slave labor economies, and so I guess it suits the lazy selfish elite that controls this country to opt for the easier, ultimately unsustainable path which you seem to prefer.

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Finally Yabby, you have acknowledged elsewhere (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6326#92956) that the world's environment is going down the toilet largely due (I would say) to the mining boom that you applaud and the rampant growth of China's global-warimg and polluting industries. How can we possibly have a prosperous economy with a ruined global environment?

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PALE,

I appreciate that you at east grasp what has happened to the IT sector. Of course I understand why foreign students want to come here and would consider doing the same if I was in their shoes. However, any decent society must look after its own citizens first. Instead, this society's elite have developed a bizarre contempt for our own people, as demonstrated by Yabby above who has implicitly attributed the advances in telecommunications to the replacement of Australian IT workers with immigrant or off-shored IT workers.

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CJ Morgan,

Why shouldn't PALE be able to discuss IT workers on a forum about skilled migration?