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The Forum > General Discussion > AI tool permit Israel to kill civilians

AI tool permit Israel to kill civilians

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The Guardian reports April 4, 2024 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

“The Israeli military’s bombing campaign in Gaza used a previously undisclosed AI-powered database that at one stage identified 37,000 potential targets based on their apparent links to Hamas, according to intelligence sources involved in the war."

[The AI database is called "LAVENDER" developed by Israel's electronic intelligence agency "Unit 8200", a cover name for Israel's NSA].

In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, called LAVENDER, the intelligence sources claim that Israeli military officials permitted large numbers of Palestinian civilians to be killed, particularly during the early weeks and months of the conflict.

...“This is unparalleled, in my memory,” said one intelligence officer who used Lavender, adding that they had more faith in a “statistical mechanism” than a grieving soldier. “EVERYONE THERE, INCLUDING ME, LOST PEOPLE ON OCTOBER 7. THE MACHINE DID IT COLDLY. AND THAT MADE IT EASIER.”

...Several of the sources described how, for certain categories of targets, the IDF applied pre-authorised allowances for the estimated number of civilians who could be killed before a strike was authorised.

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants.

...Another said the principal question they were faced with was whether the “collateral damage” to civilians allowed for an attack.

“Because we usually carried out the attacks with dumb bombs, and that meant literally dropping the whole house on its occupants. But even if an attack is averted, you don’t care – you immediately move on to the next target. Because of the system, the targets never end. You have another 36,000 waiting.”

According to conflict experts, if Israel has been using dumb bombs to flatten the homes of thousands of Palestinians who were linked, with the assistance of AI, to militant groups in Gaza, that could help explain the shockingly high death toll in the war..."
MORE http://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes
Posted by Maverick, Thursday, 4 April 2024 12:05:54 PM
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I have allowed this post, but it appears to be propaganda, and the Guardian subsequently published a response from the Israeli Defence Force repudiating the claims that they target using AI.

Lavender is a database, there are multiple humans involved in the targeting and approval process, and most of their munitions are smart bombs.

Read the IDF response and then make up your own minds. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza, but it appears to me as the moderator that wars now extend beyond geographical boundaries via media and social media which carries unverified stories based on false or incomplete information designed to further the aims of one side or the other in a conflict.

It is dangerous for forums to amplify this propaganda.
Posted by Graham_Young, Thursday, 4 April 2024 4:15:13 PM
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Israel's usual friends, including Australia and the US, are learning more about Israel's style of mass punishment for October 7th the longer the killing goes on.

Typically Israel operates on a reverse decimation principle, ie. for the 1,139 Israelis murdered on October 7th 12,000 Arabs would expect to be killed by the IDF. But Israel has exceeded even Biden's expectations:

Palestinian sources estimate "Since the start of the Israeli operation, more than 32,000 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed,[30] including over 13,000 children and 9,000 women." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war

Then there is the principles of Proportionality and Distinction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Proportionality_and_distinction

"...Human Rights Watch [HRW] has stated that the overall civilian death toll, and Israel's use of powerful weapons in Gaza's densely-populated neighbourhoods, raised "serious questions" about the legality of Israel's conduct. HRW further argued that a higher proportion of casualties among women and children is indicative of a lack of proportionality.

...Amnesty International accused Israel of war crimes in a report where it analyzed five incidents between 7 October and 12 October where the IDF targeted residential areas in Gaza. It found that in several cases the IDF struck targets with no evidence of military activity and that these attacks were "indiscriminate" in nature.

...Experts cited by The Washington Post argue that certain Israeli airstrikes show that Israel has a tolerance for civilian casualties "orders of magnitude greater" than that of the US in its war against ISIS.

...In March 2024, the United Nations said that more children were killed in Gaza in four months than in four years of worldwide wars.[683]

Philippe Lazzarini, head of the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees, declared: "This war is a war on children"."
Posted by Maverick, Thursday, 4 April 2024 6:17:26 PM
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With the references to The Guardian, it has to be propaganda.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 4 April 2024 6:25:44 PM
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No ttbn

"With the references to The Guardian" are not "propaganda"

The Guardian's sources are mainly Israeli military and intelligence people who admit they are killing too many non-Hamas civilians...
Posted by Maverick, Thursday, 4 April 2024 6:41:50 PM
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Where is mention in the piece that Gaza is controlled by a terrorist organisation that has spent most of the aid given to its people on fortifications and weapons for the sole purpose of killing Jews? None.

Were Ukraine to have created a similar network of fortifications and weapons along its border for the purpose of conducting unprovoked attacks against Russians on Russian soil, including murder and the taking of hostages, then I would have no objection to Russia exercising its right to send in its army and remove the threat and rescue its citizens.

Mav, the way it works is that if a nation is subjected to unprovoked attacks it has the right to defend itself and neutralise the threat. Contrary to the belief of some, it is not the case that unprovoked attacks by terrorists and authoritarian regimes are always right and just whereas defensive responses by democratic nations to such attacks are always barbaric and unjust.
Posted by Fester, Thursday, 4 April 2024 7:20:08 PM
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