Come Philo we both understand that.
We both understand also that those same people often did these acts in a church or place of worship, while in the service of God.
We know more than one Church ,more than one God was involved.
I at least know rather than drowned sometimes those Church's looked after those who committed the crimes better than the victims.
And Philo I at least while condemning those who hide the crime as much as those who did it , understand within religions all of them.
They who acted like that are minority's.
Condemn me if you wish to every hell every God ever promised to those who did not follow, I would have eternal life just to spend my time in each.
But I know man has no need of fables, we after all created all Gods, from within the mind of man all the good intentions of every holly book came.
That simple fact keeps me hoping for better yet from us
regards.

Belly
If you go back and read some of the posts in Philos name yu will see what I am talking about.
I too know that many many many church leaders and workers mauled little kids.
The Christian Church has and always will cover those offenders up.
I can give you dozens of examples.
Not now because I must go to work. No doubt so can ask hundreds of others.
Belly what I wanted to say however was most of the offenders I have noticed in the past always talk about these types of things.
They are so sick and fixed on this subject that they cant stop talking thinking about it.

They usually have a deep resentment to woman and they usually keep brining up such topics as abortion or rape.
It is just another way to control or stear the conversation into the only area they really wish to be.
You will often find those people are actually offenders themselves.
I have done quite a bit of counciling belly and I think you do not have to look far to find a Churchy sick offender.
' There is one around every corner and on many pages even of this forum.
I just thought it best to warn you before you feed anybodies sick appetite.
I have seen this type of thing many times before so I am quick to spot this type of person.

Its best nt to feed them but thats of course up to yourself.

“Find me a God. single one that claims every one is equal, no one lessor , and while not believing I could fall in behind.”

I can point to a God who holds that all humans are equal if that’s what you mean. That would be too easy and I believe I know what you mean… The same God is all about choices. Confining it to heavenly reward sometimes seems like a rationalisation. I hope I can articulate this. Either God created everything or He didn't. If we choose to jump over a cliff and our equipment fails atheists don't curse God for being a bastard for creating gravity. Yet atheists know more about gravity than theology of eternal salvation so logically that should be something they should feel more comfortable doing. Obviously atheists understand gravity's importance hence the inconsistency. But logically it seems problematic to judge God with respect to eternal salvation without also judging God for creating gravity. Less than an all or none approach seems unfair if an omnipotent creator is involved even hypothetically.

“Come Philo we both understand that.”

I suspected you did.

“I too know that many many many church leaders and workers mauled little kids.
The Christian Church has and always will cover those offenders up.
I can give you dozens of examples.”

Sigh! Looks like this post is following the normal route of going into anti-Christian bigotry mode. Most Christians or priests are paedophiles stay away from them. Tragically these people don’t know how prevalent paedophilia really is. It isn’t just the priest we hear about on the news reports. That is a drop in the ocean compared to the cases that go before the courts. The media just like reporting on Christian molestors. I presume originally it appeared novel but after all these years it is probably habit. Anyway Belly if this thread does die out a degenerated death thanks for the discussion.

That's an unusual line of thinking, mjbp.

>>I can point to a God who holds that all humans are equal... The same God is all about choices<<

If you are referring to the Christian God - or the Islamic one, since they are the same - how do you justify the statement that they are "all about choices".

The whole tenor of the Commandments, for example, is to eliminate choice. Chock full of prohibition - no other gods, no graven images, no taking his name in vain etc. - where's the "choice" in that?

How much more powerful would it be if he had left choice in the equation, and people actually chose not to steal, chose not to kill others, chose not to commit adultery etc. without any prompting from a list of nagging instructions.

But wait.

That's exactly what most people do, without divine intervention or weighty stone tablets.

And those that don't, I would strongly suggest, are sourced equally from the devout, and the non-devout.

mjpb you will not find me answering some posts, I in no way share any view all Christians or ANY from ANY religion are evil.
We each have opinions, some can not confront the idea they may be wrong.
I have no problem in understanding I am not always right.
I fight any type of unfounded bigotry always.
However no God , none, can claim to be the only one to me, evidence needs to be placed before me that the host of humans who may think Christ is that one have considered the views of the majority of the human race who follow other Gods.
It is blind to say every thing we love is the work of God.
Why would an almighty God show himself to one generation but not ours?

Pericles,

”>>I can point to a God who holds that all humans are equal... The same God is all about choices<<

...Christian God - or the Islamic one, ... they are the same - how do you justify the statement ...”

”The whole tenor of the Commandments, for example, is to eliminate choice. Chock full of prohibition...?”

Simple. You can choose to follow the religion or not follow the religion. They are ideals you (should) take on board if you choose to follow the religion.

”How much more powerful would it be if he had left choice in the equation, and people actually chose not to ...commit adultery... etc. without any prompting..”

It is always a choice. As you later point out some either purporting or attempting to be religious make the wrong choices. I’d suggest less powerful. Without a prompting list anything is arguable. For example you get Dworkins utilitarian ‘ethics’ pushing to supplant the cultural norm of inherent human value.

”That's exactly what most people do, without divine intervention ...”

Atheism is a recent phenomenon. Give it time. Dworkins is certainly ubiquitous. He might be influential.