"what on earth is wrong with you?"

What is wrong with me is that I keep thinking its possible to educate the uneducable to understand that in the fog of war you can't leap to any conclusions, only to find that people like AC leap at every conclusion that suits their narrative.

For what its worth, this is as good a summary of why the two state solution has failed as you're likely to find.

It won't change the minds of the Hamas cheer-squad but its still worthwhile having some truth around to cut through the BS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U

post-truth mhaze,

"Unlike you I'm cognoscente of the fog of war and don't fall for propagandistic claims. Unless they are verified by multiple sources they are mere assertions."

Utter garbage. Truth really doesn't matter to you does it.

"Perhaps the world should have said " "Enough. This must stop now!" BEFORE they started beheading babies."
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 14 October 2023 10:09:08 AM

Hi Yuyutsu,
"So far I haven't caught Israeli mainstream media lying - have you?"

I don't specifically follow Jewish media, (or read Hebrew) but sometimes I find articles from Haaretz and Times of Israel

40 beheaded babies, women gang raped and shot
Women with babies cut out of their womb...

Why is it that I see the two separate groups of stories
- And the just do not correlate...

I mean I guess this is a war...
With Ukraine and Russian media there's a significant difference between what one side says and what the other side says.

"I believe Israeli media when they showed that page which contained the official Hamas orders in Arabic."

Take this for example...
(sad to hear about 84yo Elma Avraham btw hope she's ok)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/daughter-of-critically-ill-84-year-old-freed-hostage-red-cross-abandoned-her/

A few days back we had a story from Danyal Aloni and her daughter, Emilia...

Apparently she's written a letter to Hamas.
- What she says in her letter does not correlate:

This:

'40 beheaded babies, women gang raped and shot
Women with babies cut out of their womb...'

Does not correlate with this:

Videos of released hostages hugging and thanking Hamas for their kind treatment...

[Cont.]

Here is her letter:

“To the generals who have accompanied me in recent weeks, it seems we will part ways tomorrow, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your extraordinary humanity shown towards my daughter, Emilia.

You were like parents to her, inviting her into your rooms whenever she desired.

She acknowledges feeling like all of you are her friends, not just friends, but truly beloved and good.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the many hours you spent as caregivers.

Thank you for being patient with her and showering her with sweets, fruits, and everything available even when it was not.

Children should not be in captivity, but thanks to you and other kind people we met along the way, my daughter felt like a queen in Gaza...

In general, she acknowledges feeling like the center of the world.

She hasn't met anyone on our long journey, from the rank and file to the leadership, who didn't treat her with gentleness, affection, and love.

I will forever be a prisoner of gratitude because she did not leave here with a lifelong psychological trauma.

I will remember your kind behavior, granted here despite the difficult situation you were dealing with yourselves and the severe losses you suffered here in Gaza.

I wish in this world we could truly be good friends.

I wish you all health and well-being... Health and love to you and your families' children.

Many thanks.

Danyal and Emilia"

(Image of letter on the link below)
http://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1729262327222976855

- Now anyone who wants to say I'm full of it needs only look at the videos of released hostages I've already shared, they don't lie.

So I've got these two narratives that just don't correlate with one another.
Can they both be right? - Maybe.

Hi Yuyutsu,

Your statement; "The written orders found on Hamas bodies on October 7th, instructed them to dismember their victims, then rape their dead corpses, explaining why in that case they must act against the Quran which normally instructs not to kill women and children. So far no one who was raped was found alive."

Your source; "I saw this on Israeli news, in Hebrew, a day or two after." As we know the first causality of war is truth. I don't doubt Hamas fighters and others raped women, a common occurrence in war from all sides. I very much doubt the authenticity of that particular report. It surprises me that YOU would reproduce it here, and present it as fact. those reports are mostly propaganda, designed to enrage the populace against the enemy. That's more the domain of mhaze