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The Forum > General Discussion > Forcible conversion

Forcible conversion

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Yuyutsu,

Religions have their code of morality, often
inscribed in scripture or in ethics handed
down by religious authorities. Some of religious
people rely upon scripture or authority without
thought. The revealed word the word of authority is
enough for them and they believe that there is no
need for interpretation and therefore nothing more
can or should be said. The matter is settled for
them.

This is the way the Catholic Church operates today.
And a good person is defined as one who adheres to
religious dictates without deviation.

I could not do that and left. I did what I thought was
right for me.

I do not wish to judge anyone else.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 20 October 2023 2:09:49 PM
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Dear Foxy,

Religions are there to help their adherents to come closer to God,
and one of the services they provide for that purpose is to codify morality.

In order to learn about God, one needs to, in this order:
1) hear and listen.
2) ask bold questions in order to remove any confusion or doubts one may have.
3) meditate on the teachings.

All three are required: an organisation which discourages the second step, does not serve religion.

«This is the way the Catholic Church operates today.»

And that begs the question: is the Catholic Church today [still] a religion?

«And a good person is defined as one who adheres to
religious dictates without deviation.»

True religion does not dictate, true religion teaches and answers questions,
True religion clears the road to God.
Without even questioning, what makes you believe that these dictates are at all religious?

«I could not do that and left. I did what I thought was
right for me.»

Good on you!
You may have left the church, but it does not mean that you left religion.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 20 October 2023 2:47:11 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,

AND, if this God doesn't exist then what is the purpose of it all.

I posed the question some weeks back; Do Angels exist?

Well some supposedly intelligent religious men had to admit Angels, and by default the Devil and his followers, who were supposedly once Angles also didn't exist. Then they went on to allude to the good workings of Angles and the bad deeds of devils, who they agreed didn't exist, but were vital to the workings of God. I said but you have names for some Angels, and then there are what's called guardian angels. I wanted to know if there was a stock of Angels in reserve, and what were they doing? It was a laughable discussion, a bit like saying Santa Clause doesn't exist, but he brings us presents at Xmas time! And without Santa we'd get no presents, great logic. Any thoughts on that question of Angels.

This weeks discussion was is God ever wrong, and does he ever change his mind? They said God is never wrong, but God changes his mind, sometimes. I gave a glaring example of God changing his mind in the book of Exodus. If he has a mind then when he's wrong he must be able to change it. What do you say on God changing his mind. Is he wrong some of the time, therefore he needs to change his mind. Which if he doesn't exist then its a very difficult thing to do.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 20 October 2023 10:52:54 PM
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Do these things exist or don't they ? It doesn't matter when it comes to faith. After all, people can only believe in something by having the faith that it'll prove to be fact eventually !
That's why it's called faith !
Religion has nothing to do with it.
Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 21 October 2023 2:37:35 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote, "If a person overtly wears a Nazi uniform and is registered in the Nazi party, but covertly hides and saves Jews, then he is not truly a Nazi."

Schindler overtly wore a Nazi uniform and was registered in the Nazi party. He was truly a Nazi and served a term in a Czech prison because of his Nazi activities. He was truly a Nazi and also saved Jews. The world is more complicated than you think.

A person can also be a bad person, do bad things and still be religious.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 21 October 2023 6:33:19 PM
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Dear Paul,

«AND, if this God doesn't exist then what is the purpose of it all.»

Depends how you define 'purpose'.

«I posed the question some weeks back; Do Angels exist?»

Depends how you define 'angel'.

«Any thoughts on that question of Angels.»

If thoughts of angels inspire you, if they help you to purify your mind, then go ahead and pray to them.

«This weeks discussion was is God ever wrong, and does he ever change his mind?»

Such nonsensical questions arise from the silly assumption that God is some kind of a being.

«I gave a glaring example of God changing his mind in the book of Exodus.»

The book of Exodus was written by people, flesh and blood, who were so trapped in the concept of time that they even attempted to describe God in terms of a being who lives in time: bigger, stronger, wiser, but still a being. I wouldn't take their stories seriously, especially when science tells us that this exodus never happened.

---

Dear David F.,

Suppose that through ignorance, Schindler was counted after WWII as a Nazi by the Czechs that imprisoned him, then that would not make him a Nazi any more than child-molesting priests who through ignorance are considered "religious".

But it looked strange to me that he was imprisoned, so I looked up and found that Schindler was actually imprisoned BEFORE WWII, not after, and for spying for Germany, not for being a Nazi.

He might have been a Nazi before the war, I cannot tell, but he certainly wasn't during and after the war.

«A person can also be a bad person, do bad things and still be religious.»

Yes. A person with a bad nature who makes sincere efforts to improve their character, even if they fail at times, can be considered to be religious. Religious institutions are supposed to support the efforts of these people. To be pedantically precise, I would say that such a person is being religious most of the time.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 21 October 2023 10:45:19 PM
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