While living in Alice Springs in the 1960s, while building a live in school for aboriginal children, who at the time were being taken from neglecting parents. We had to bury a young mother and baby who died during childbirth. The young mother died of toxemia, she never attended prenatal support and the birth happened under a birthing tree with other women present, in the riverbed until it was too complex, and she was taken to hospital too late to save her and the baby.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/infant-mortality/topicinfo/reduce-risk
Preventing Birth Defects
Addressing Preterm Birth, Low Birth Weight, and Their Outcomes
Getting Pre-Pregnancy and Prenatal Care
Creating a Safe Infant Sleep Environment
Using Newborn Screening to Detect Hidden Conditions

Is the Voice going to enforce attendance to Clinics on young aboriginal women? Are the husbands going to stop beating and abusing their spouse?

Just vote NO.

The question being asked here is:

How will the Voice reduce infant mortality?

The principle is that it will be Indigenous people
who would be providing advice that could ultimately
see better policy and therefore improvements in
health and child welfare.

There's been plenty of advice around Parliament House
in Canberra. It's just that it's been advice from
career bureaucrats, ministerial and policy advisers
and chiefs of staff, many of whom are well intentioned,
but most of whom have no idea about Aboriginal people
or the solutions that will work on the ground.

The technocrats chop and change and move on. This is the
cycle that contributes to poor policy design and outcomes.

A NO vote will produce "Business-as Usual."
Which will continue to produce policy failures that will
waste money and cost lives.

Indigenous people will continue to be viewed as a problem to
overcome rather than a people offering solutions based on
their intimate knowledge of their people and societies.

That's why a YES vote is so important. Better outcomes for
people in the bush mean better outcomes for us all.

A YES vote will do diddly squat for the aboriginals, only for the select few who will suddenly become very rich

Shadow Minister,

You need to explain that remark.

Which few are you referring to and how will
they suddenly become rich? It's the government
who will control the implementation of the Voice,
and its design, composition, functions, powers, and
procedures. The Parliament will include Peter
Dutton, Jacinta Price and all the opposition members.
Are you saying they're corrupt and will steal from our
Indigenous people?

Shadow Minister,

If you really believe that the Voice will do "diddly
squat" for our First Nations people that means that
you feel that if the referendum is approved and the
YES vote wins - that you think that whatever advice
is offered by the Indigenous advisory body will be
knocked back by parliament? And "Business-as-usual,"
will prevail?

You should have more faith and trust in at least your
side of politics surely. They're not continual
nay sayers - are they?

If they currently know advice on how to avoid infant mortality, which is claimed by the Yes Campaign, they will not have any more information after the Voice to advise the Government It is a fraud!

It will only work if they force young pregnant aboriginal women to attend pre-natal and post-natal clinics and remove them from the isolation of the bush camps and the old primitive birthing culture, and from the abuse of their husbands. Their food sources are not suitable for infants unless babies are removed from mothers at birth or the mother also removed from the camp, into care in the closest towns.

We live in a free and equal society and people choose where they want to live, and what they want to eat. Mortality in aboriginal children has always been extreme in the past, which is why only one point three million remained after 65,000 years. Doubling the population every thousand years from two - at thirty thousand years it stands at 173,635,456. What were the causes of death in infants before 1788? Obviously, a lot of dead or murdered infants.

Dear Josephus,

«We live in a free and equal society and people choose where they want to live, and what they want to eat.»

Yes we are all free to choose where we WANT to live, etc.
But most of us don't get to choose where we actually live.

Aboriginals have the choice to live their old lifestyle in the bush or the modern lifestyle in towns and cities, or even to have the best of both.
Non-aboriginals do not have this privilege.

Why not have a Voice for ALL those who wish to live the aboriginal way (and other alternate lifestyles) and be left alone out in the bush, regardless of their ancestry? Our mortality is none of government's business, including where and how we give birth, since we never asked for their "help".

Jose' and other 'No' voters , what comfort you must take in knowing your vote will be in the same pile as the Neo-Nazi's from 'The Warriors for Convict Resistance' they are also voting 'No', you have something in common.

For those really interested in learning why the YES
vote is so important reading the following link will
help put things into perspective:

http://bbc.com/news/world-australia-66944609

What an indictment, 235 years after the European brought it to this land, and 50 years since a case in the white population, tuberculosis raises its ugly head again in the Aboriginal population of South Australia. Now, does that tell us something?

Josephus,

All they are asking is to be given the chance to advise.
They know their own people and what will work in their
communities. Besides governments will have the control.
Why are you so against giving this a chance?
It will work if all of us work together. It's an ongoing
process. This is a start. It hasn't worked in the past
because government did not listen or implement what was
being advised. We have to make this official - and give
our Indigenous people a seat at the table to be listened
to.

I wish that I could
Sing like Farnham
With a Voice to stir
Your soul
Try as I might
To sing out loud
Your soul
I can't control
So I ask of you
As an Australian
To find it in your heart
To please vote YES
In the polling booth
So equality
We can impart.

Dear Foxy,

Indigenous Australians have the same rights as other Australians and have twice the sum spent on them as other Australians.

"The principle is that it will be Indigenous people
who would be providing advice that could ultimately
see better policy and therefore improvements in
health and child welfare."

That principle has been tried for the past half century and has been a repeated failure. It is an inherently racist principle as it implies that indigenous Australians best know how to solve their own problems, a principle of "them and us" if you like.

Enshrining indigenous Australians in the Constitution as the first Australians will also establish the "we were here first" principle. This would violate the democratic principle of equality, whereby you are equal regardless of your heritage or time of tenure: Such things rightly should not be of relevance to your citizenship.

Australians should reject dividing the nation and bestowing special rights on the basis of race. Instead, Australians should embrace their equality and solve problems together. A nation enshrining "them and us" and "we were here first" in its constitution is a nation divided.

The Voice is nothing but a high-speed transport system for corruption !

Foxy,

The reason that I think the voice will do diddly squat for Aboriginals is because:

Over 1,000 Aboriginal committees have already been formed to provide advice etc at the local level most are ineffective and some are outright corrupt.

The voice so far is open-ended and without limits and can influence any decision at any level of government. It is a rent-seeking vehicle like none other in Aus history.

Labor should have presented a tested working model rather than demanding a blank cheque with no clear concept of how it will work.

Paul believes we can be shamed because some Neo-Nazi will vote NO. He is however OK with communists Voting YES, as they want to put a wedge in our constitution to allow radical communists to rule without an election. Communists like Marcia Langton, and the nonaboriginal Thomas Mayo, are the darlings of Albanese.

http://ctgreport.niaa.gov.au/child-mortality

In 2018, the Indigenous child mortality rate was 141 per 100,000—twice the rate for non-Indigenous children (67 per 100,000).
Since the 2008 target baseline, the Indigenous child mortality rate has improved slightly, by around 7 per cent. However, the mortality rate for non-Indigenous children has improved at a faster rate and, as a result, the gap has widened." [infant deaths in indigenous not changed]
"Some of the major health risk factors for Indigenous child mortality are improving. There is a need for further research to understand why these improvements have not translated into stronger improvements in Indigenous child mortality rates."
"Over the period 2014 to 2018, the main cause of Indigenous child deaths was perinatal conditions (49 per cent), such as complications of pregnancy and birth. Most Indigenous child deaths (85 per cent) occurred during the first year of life. This was similar for non-Indigenous children.

About 15 per cent of Indigenous child deaths were children aged 1–4 years old, nearly half of which were from external causes (including transport accidents, drowning, other accidents and injuries)
Child mortality is associated with a variety of health and social determinants. Although a complex set of factors are involved, maternal health (such as hypertension, obesity, and diabetes) and risk factors during pregnancy (such as smoking and alcohol use) are key drivers of birth outcomes and deaths among Indigenous children. However, access to quality medical care, public health initiatives and safe living conditions serve as protective factors and can improve the chances of having a healthy baby (

I see the aboriginal journalists are blaming infant deaths and childhood deaths on racism. But ignore the facts at play, has nothing to do with racism, and more to do with lifestyle choices.

http://nit.com.au/06-10-2023/7992/racism-killing-aboriginal-children-youth-commissioner
"Some of those are due to family and domestic violence but some are due to extreme racism."
Here are a couple of examples of teen deaths.

Proud Boy Jose'

There is irrefutable evidence that Neo-Nazi's ('The Warriors for Convict Resistance') are advocating a'NO' vote. Care to name one Communist organisation advocating a 'YES' vote. If you were forced to line up with the 'NO' mob, you would be standing next to a bloke wearing a balaclava giving a Nazi salute and ratting of with hate speak towards Aboriginal people, not a good look, then again YOU might be comfortable with that look! I can't say.

The polls have the seven Teal seats voting NO.

Meanwhile, the director of the Yes campaign is against the proposed audit of the aboriginal industry following allegations of fraud. As the Yes campaign gets more strident and panicky, the suspicion rises.

NO is the only way to go for the sake of all Australians, particularly aboriginal Australians, who are being used in a very sinister plot by Albanese and his goons.

Over the years so many reports, reviews and inquiries
have stressed the need for an overhaul of the system
dealing with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
people and stressing the need to respect their rights.

These have been documented by royal commissions, parliamentary
committees, government agencies, human rights and equal
opportunity committees, respected United Nations bodies, and
even by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people themselves.
Successive governments have consistently ignored these reports
and recommendations have not been implemented or only parts
have been implemented.

That's why we need an official Indigenous body that can't be
brushed aside - to have a seat at the table. Otherwise nothing
will change.

Dear Foxy,

"That's why we need an official Indigenous body that can't be
brushed aside - to have a seat at the table. Otherwise nothing
will change."

We have had half a century of indigenous Australians trying to solve the problems of indigenous Australians (which is ironic considering pre-1788 Australia was not a nation and it wasn't all peace and love on the occasions when the inhabitants met one another). There have been a number of indigenous bodies because of repeated failures and the realisation that things needed to change. In light of this, establishing a body that would be harder to change, perhaps impossible because of its constitutional status, does not seem wise.

As Warren Mundine pointed out, with educational parity of indigenous and non-indigenous Australians, there is no gap to close.

Fester,

There's a huge gap to close.
Successive governments have not listened
to our First Nations people who've tried
for decades to tell them what should be
done. Governments have simply ignored them.

A formal body enshrined in the Constitution
may force governments to not only listen
but act.

At the principle - the very fact that Indigenous
people will now be a formal body and would be
providing advice that could ultimately
see better policy and therefore better outcomes
in health, education, housing, employment, and
child welfare, youth justice, that in itself is
surely worth giving this a go.

"Business-as-usual," is not a good option.

Hi Fester,

"We have had half a century of indigenous Australians trying to solve the problems of indigenous Australians"

I don't agree with that statement, we've had 50 years of a well intended paternalistic approach to Aboriginal affairs by white Australia. Staring with Whitlam and continuing to the present, successive governments have taken a negative approach to the problems confronting the First Australian's, from an Aboriginal perspective. We as a nation become extremely patronising; "Oh dear the poor black fella, these child like folk must be cared for, and only us white people are capable of knowing what's best for those poor unfortunates, they are incapable of exercising their own judgement, we must decide for them". The fact is that approach has not worked satisfactorily and we have 50 years of evidence to back it up. Now we as a nation have the opportunity to try something different.

Hi Paul,

Warren Mundine's remark on educational parity being a means of closing the gap is indisputable, and as long as the education of indigenous Australians is a priority, whatever body pursues it is not of my concern. Determining who gets the task of closing the gap is the choice of all Australians in the coming referendum.

I agree with you that is wrong to have the minutiae of your life controlled as happened to indigenous people in the past, but I don't agree that you can conflate this with the decisions of a democracy in defining the laws we all abide by. Democracies should be about what the majority thinks best for "us", not "them and us".

Fester,

It was the majority who decided for the minority in the
case of our Indigenous people. It was a "them" and "us"
situation all along. The minority was not listened to
and had no say in their own affairs. That is not a
democracy - when total control is only done by one
pair of hands.

Remember that the Indigenous people won't
even counted and had no citizenship rights. They only
got the right to vote quite recently - so what you're
saying is false and it is about time that things did
change and we became one nation - united and not
divided. Let these folk have a seat at the table - and
be listened to. It could result in better policies and
better outcomes. The system needs an overhaul.

The Voice will close the gap,
stop the wife beating and crime,
educate those who don't attend school,
cure cancer and create world peace.

Just give Albozo and his 40 thieves unlimited authority to change the constitution and it'll all be right.

How stupid does Albozo think the voters are.

Foxy is at it again claiming we are NOT One nation, which is a lie. We are one Nation united as equal citizens, which 97% agreed fifty-six years ago. But the Yes camp wants a group of unelected activists who represent 3% of the population to have the rights that no other citizen has, seated in Canberra, because their ancestors were here first. It will not be the disadvantaged uneducated bush camp aboriginals advising government, it will be those educated lawyers, raking in a high salary off taxpayers advising Executive Government, and attending High Court proceedings. They will be setting up two sets of laws and justice, with Koori courts. Wife bashing and child abuse and theft will be excused as it is ancient cultural and will fit in with Islamic culture.

This YES Vote is the best way to divide Australians as "US" and "THEM", which the ABC frequently uses in their Voice report.

Dear Foxy,

Indigenous women have had the right to vote in South Australia since 1856. Most indigenous Australians had the right to vote before the 1967 referendum. The principle of equality drove both decisions.

"It was the majority who decided for the minority in the
case of our Indigenous people. It was a "them" and "us"
situation all along. The minority was not listened to
and had no say in their own affairs."

So your solution to this is to segregate indigenous Australians from the rest of the population and make their own decisions? Why would that work when numerous indigenous organisations over the past half century have done that and failed. Besides satisfying a definition of stupidity, it also excludes 97% of Australia's brainpower for solving problems. It defies the principle of equality.

Albanese should have legislated a Voice so that Australians could see it in action. Instead, he expects Australians to support his "sign now, detail later" referendum. I wont be supporting this racist and divisive nonsense.

Paul1405 & Foxy are a scary indicator of the wider community being as stupid as the Voice activists take them for !

Gentlemen,

I am tired of arguing.

I shall be voting YES in the referendum.

I hope that if you haven't voted yet that you will
at least consult your better angels before you
fill in the form in the ballot box.

History will judge you - and she won't be kind.

Village idiot,

"Just give Albozo and his 40 thieves unlimited authority to change the constitution"

Even a half wit like you should know that the Constitution can only be changed by a vote of the people, that's what's happening now..... then again you were the bloke who said as a man of letter, what a joke, (laugh, laugh) it was your legal opinion (more laughter) that; "Cry Baby Porter has nothing to worry about, he is in for $10+ million in compensation from the ABC, and a groveling apology with 100 ABC staff sacked to pay for it all.... let me add,the boy shows promise, he will be PM one day." (what a joke)!

Stick to you job as a "Sanitation Engineer" and flush those friends and relatives of your's down the khazi, along with all your worthless legal opinions!

History will judge you - and she won't be kind.
Foxy,
We've already passed the point of no return simply by proposing the utterly unnecessary division of the Voice.
Why the Labor Ideologues didn't simply propose for the Aborigines to be recognised & make the NIAA & the myriad of non-indigenous hangers-on do their job has already cost this Nation its future !

Self-confessed village idiot,

Once again you are deliberately misquoting me. You are a LIAR and a FRAUD. Did you get that from your mate Jono Doig?

The vote is happening now and after consulting my better angels I voted NO.

Surprise, surprise, another one of the bigots and racists claims to have voted voted "No", did your friend the convicted paedophile James Hayward also vote "No"? Well, if the "No" vote gets up, and that's a real possibility, now the Village Idiot has informed us all he's voted "No", he will be leading the torch light possession into the stadium! I suspect he was also the Neo-Nazi wearing the balaclava, burning the Aboriginal flag, abusing Senator Thorpe and giving the Nazi salute on 'X'.

Indyvidual,

The Voice is not a proposal from Labor. It comes from
our First Nations people. Our PM is merely keeping
his election promise.

Anyhow as I stated earlier - I don't want to argue.
I have no control over your interpretation and
comprehension. The information is out there. How
you're going to vote is entirely up to you.
I think it's pointless to
keep going around in circles regarding this topic.

I have to say that the Yes people have behaved abominably: name-calling physical threats, and so on. A a sign hurled a a NO group at one booth. Morons calling people racists, as if that's going to make any difference to what people vote. If people are racists, what's the point of calling them what they are, morons!

Conservative people, Yes or No, are more tolerant and better behaved, as usual.

Not being a typical conservative, I am not tolerant of the latter-day communists, whom I regard as scum, and hope the very worst for them. They have gone out of their way to make this country and society very unpleasant and permanently divided, as have all Communist through the ages. A pox on them!

Dear Foxy,

"I hope that if you haven't voted yet that you will
at least consult your better angels before you
fill in the form in the ballot box.

History will judge you - and she won't be kind."

I will be voting "no" as I think it the right thing to do. Equating a vote with being a good or bad person is silly. I don't think any of us here are bad people, rather I think us people who see things differently from one another who care enough to engage in discussion.

Education is a key to closing the gap. Remote education is a shambles and getting worse. Wasting more money on bureaucracy wont help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LMiA_vymnY

As for you people who keep arguing with Paul, Foxy and SR, show some restraint and intelligence. There are people that you must walk away from - those three are such people. You are lowering yourselves to their very low level. How about some dignity! Nothing you say to them is going to make a bit of difference. The more you respond, the more they like it. You are enabling the idiots.

Fester,

I did not say that those who vote NO are bad people.
Merely that history certainly will judge and considering
the fact that Australia is the only Commonwealth country
who doesn't recognize its First Nations people in its
Constitution and now has a chance to do so - history will
not be kind. This will be a day of reckoning for Australia.

I don't think that the Voice will increase bureaucracy.
What it may do is deliver better outcomes and the saving
of misdirected funds.

But again, it's your decision. And it's not me doing the
judging. It will be history and the international community.

ttbn,

Why are you responding to posts that were not directed
to you? You once accused me of doing that. And now here
you are jumping in with your insults.

You should set yourself some boundaries instead of telling
others how to behave.

Not nice or moral behaviour.

ttbn,

And calling us "idiots?"

Lets compare our posting records.

A final few words: there will be 17.6 million people compulsorily voting on this unnecessary, divisive claptrap next Saturday.

Yet, some of you are still arguing with 3 miserable idiots.

If yes gets up, you can see what is going to happen. Those with similar values to aboriginals will want to marry into aboriginals to control the agenda. Those minority groups like communists and Muslim men, so their children will have an unelected seat in the voice to the government executive.

The Land is sacred to the Creator spirit of Universe [Allah], and the Voice will control its use and who goes there. This is already an example in Burrum. Native title is separating residents from beach in Burrum Heads, Queensland, which leaves locals furious. Feedback Access to the Burrum Heads beach has been closed off by the Butchulla people since 2019.

Hi Foxy,

Its par for the course from the "No" mob, misinformation based on lies and distortions. The same mob that were advocating a "No" vote on 'Gay Marriage' remember what they were saying then, there would be an upsurge in paedophilia, people will want to marry animals etc, same mob, but with a different set of lies.

You'll like this one, "How to test a Racists" a middle aged white sheila wearing a big 'No' Tee-shirt, at the pre-poll Friday, thought I'd test her out.

Me; "Are you for the No side?" (Obviously with her wearing a big 'No' tee-shirt).
her; "Oh yes"
me; "I haven't decided, how I should vote"
her; "You must vote No"
me; "Why?"

She went on with the stock line, its undemocratic, we don't know about the details etc, etc....fair enough. But then to test her real motives' for a 'No' vote;

me; "Don't you agree Aboriginals get too much,
her; "Oh yes, they get far too much now, and have too much say already"
me; "Too many want everything for nothing, isn't that true!"
her; "That's true they certainly do"
me; "Next thing is they'll be running the country, we'll have no say, it will be all done through this Voice "
her; "That's certainly what going to happen if people vote 'Yes' to this."
me; "I'm working at the moment, I'll have to think about it, and vote later, goodbye."

You only have to scrape away the surface and you'll find a bigot and a racists underneath wearing a big 'No' tee-shirt.

Paul, if she is a taxpayer, she has every right to know what benefits her taxes are bringing to the disadvantaged. $43,000 for each aboriginal per annum and the disadvantaged are not getting results, compared to $26,000 for every other Australian.

The same mob that were advocating a "No" vote on 'Gay Marriage'
Paul1405,
You infer that that is a positive outcome, it is much too early to claim that it is but in the long run I predict that it'll prove to be not so. The Voice is totally different as the outcome is already clear that it will prove more & more divisive as time goes on.
The glitch with the Voice is that it is asking us to answer two questions with one answer. That is an extremely poor & shaky ground to build a future society on. No wonder it is proposed by people with no consideration for others especially those whom they pretend to be helping.

Hi Foxy,
"I did not say that those who vote NO are bad people.
Merely that history certainly will judge and considering
the fact that Australia is the only Commonwealth country
who doesn't recognize its First Nations people in its
Constitution and now has a chance to do so - history will
not be kind. This will be a day of reckoning for Australia."

I don't know about that hey,
I haven't read through all the comments on this thread
But I've heard you say on other threads that you 'have faith Australians will do the right thing'.
That implies anyone who votes NO, is doing the wrong thing in your eyes
Which also implies that you believe anyone who votes NO is a bad person.
- Your words not mine.

The Voice is not a proposal from Labor.
Foxy,
I can't recall saying it was.

Armchair Critic,

Yes, I did say that I have faith Australians will do the
right thing by voting YES at the Voice referendum.

And, NO that does not imply that anybody who votes NO is a
bad person. People do the wrong thing for a variety of
reasons. It does not mean that they are bad people. Take
your numerous posts on Putin and his actions in Ukraine.
I don't consider you a bad person. Only misinformed.

Indyvidual

The SSM was a non-compululsory plebiscite; the referendum vote is compulsory. A fine applies to those who don't vote. And, people weren't under the economic pressure that Albanese has put them under this time (more important issues than the Voice), and they see what happened after the SSM win: more perversions, more demands. If the Voice were to get up, that would be only the beginning.

The SSM is a good reminder of what happens when you give into to the Far Left for people having to vote for something they don't want or are disinterested in. Most people will be remembering the SSM thing alright

Foxy is implying to Vote No is a morally wrong decision with this post.
"And, NO that does not imply that anybody who votes NO is a
BAD person. People do the WRONG thing for a variety of
reasons."
Evidence of confused double speak.

Village idiot,

Did your bum chum Jono Doig vote yes?

Do all criminals vote yes?

Do you need to be a criminal to vote yes?

Josephus,

If you have the ability to consider your actions and
if you can wonder about their impact - that would
suggest that you are probably a better person than
you think you are. Everyone is capable of change. The
choices you make in life determines who you are.

You can choose to do better.

The choices you make in life determines who you are.
Foxy,
I'm afraid I don't believe that's the case for most people. The majority does not have the privilege of choice & it is the options available to them that determine who they become.
Like the saying life is what you make it is only used by people with a cushy number provided by the tax Dollars from those with hardly any choice !

It wasn't too long ago that it damned on me that we all actually get 2 lives.

The first life we have is the one we're given by our parents.
The second life we have is the one we make for ourselves.

It's been a horrible week as far as news goes.

I've seen a numerous dead women piled on top of one another in a bus stop in Israel, others dead from gunshot wounds or paraded naked and dragged around by their hair, and Hamas thanking Ukraine for the weapons.

Numerous 20 story buildings destroyed in an instant, - who knows how many women kids and elderly were in them at the time.

Iranians celebrating, and Taliban asking permission to go in and fight the Zionist regime.

I've seen and heard Hillary Clinton speaking honestly - saying that Trump supporters need to be placed in Gulags for re-education.

I've seen and heard Bill Gates talking about killing people with Death panels because 1 million dollars to keep a sick kid alive for another 3 months could instead be spent on 10 teachers.

WHO ordering world governments to ban meat products to prevent the next pandemic.

Billionaires saying they want unemployment to rise 40 - 50% to remind people they work for the employer, not the other way around.

The world is starting to go completely nuts.
I have no idea what tomorrow will bring.

Hi AC,

"Hamas thanking Ukraine for the weapons"

I am sorry to find you unhappy, but would you rather be living a few thousand years ago? You certainly wouldn't have the internet to inform you of world conflicts. As for your comment, I would think it more likely that the weapons came from Russia or Iran. What makes you think they came from Ukraine? Putin's hatred of Ukrainians rivals that of Hitler's antisemitism, so it would be no surprise if your source is from Russia.

Hi Fester,
Sorry if I was inadvertently rude to you a week or so back on Shadow Ministers thread.

'I've seen a numerous dead women piled on top of one another in a bus stop in Israel'
http://twitter.com/marklevinshow/status/1710832838348607729
'others dead from gunshot wounds'
http://twitter.com/laralogan/status/1710730153154801800
'or paraded naked and dragged around by their hair'
http://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710665453197000983
http://twitter.com/bytesintruth/status/1710831080180232305
http://twitter.com/SVodken/status/1710624607953113126
'Hamas thanking Ukraine for the weapons'
http://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1710928745878495427
(I don't know if its genuine)
'Numerous 20 story buildings destroyed in an instant, - who knows how many women kids and elderly were in them at the time.'
- I'm sure we've all seen that footage, but here's more.
http://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1710736031442415649
http://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1710739091623489950
Iranians celebrating, and Taliban asking permission to go in and fight the Zionist regime.
http://twitter.com/EternalGlory0/status/1710711414581555563
http://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1710757794737992041
'I've seen and heard Hillary Clinton speaking honestly - saying that Trump supporters need to be placed in Gulags for re-education.'
http://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1710247776477409730
(I could've swore there was a section of the discussion where she suggested Stalin / Gulags but maybe I was mistaken, in any case she does mention deprogramming the cult members)
'I've seen and heard Bill Gates talking about killing people with Death panels because 1 million dollars to keep a sick kid alive for another 3 months could instead be spent on 10 teachers.'
http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1710352259790299638
"The Gates Foundation has been officially designated as a major stakeholder in a new ‘Global Digital ID’ scheme being rolled out by the World Economic Forum."
http://twitter.com/liz_churchill10/status/1710376960952615413
'WHO ordering world governments to ban meat products to prevent the next pandemic.'
http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1710555791818621129
'Billionaires saying they want unemployment to rise 40 - 50% to remind people they work for the employer, not the other way around.'
http://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1710656472923709541

'I’m breaking Shabbat to follow the news from Israel. What I’m seeing is horrific. A dead woman being dragged behind a car. A synagogue on fire with Jews in it. A dead baby. A woman beheaded. A woman with her head shot off. All of them civilians.'
http://twitter.com/DrDavidInDC/status/1710637859445862530
(I've not seen the footage spoken of above, but it wouldn't surprise me if its true)

Hi AC,

No offence taken. You certainly do your research . There are too many examples of where the creed of "them and us" can take people. I hope that Australians don't provide another example next week.

would you rather be living a few thousand years ago?
Fester,
That is not all that far removed from people having to live like a thousand years ago again judging by the way the many highly qualified simpledoms in Western society are carrying on.
I think it was old Alby Onestone who predicted that the fourth World war will be fought with sticks !

Indy,

Albert Einstein was a pacifist, during WWI he protested for peace in his "Manifesto to the Europeans" and called for Europe to become a single nation state, a man ahead of his time. That is why some of the American leadership during WWII considered Einstein, "suspect" politically, some even believing he was communist, see there were nut jobs around then branding people communists just like out collection of forum nut jobs do today.

Einstein's sticks and stones reference was in response to the atomic bomb, it went something like "I don't know what weapons WW3 will be fought with, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones".

Hi Indyvidual,

I think that the knowledge of people is becoming more specialised. I also believe that knowledge will be preserved to an extent that civilisation will be able to recover from catastrophes.

What amazes me with the Voice is how little regard some people have for the principle of equality as a foundation of democracy. What amazes me more is that the same people are okay about violating that principle by bestowing democratic privilege on the basis of racial heritage. But any harm that might come from the Voice is nothing compared to the damage being inflicted by pursuing renewable energy. It wont be as bad as Sri Lanka going organic, but it will not be nice.

Fester,
Nothing to argue about your statement !

Hamas is a terrorist organization, which is murdering, raping, and taking hostages of innocent civilians. So far over seven hundred civilians murdered, and we have celebrations on the streets lauding the events of Hamas as heroes. Anthony Albanese visited a Mosque on the weekend to encourage them to Vote YES, their response was, "We know what it is like to lose our homelands to colonizers". We will vote YES, then on the next day we have this same Muslim group celebrating the death of citizens of Israel many Israelis attending a concert. These are the cancer to our civilized way of life.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/how-australian-muslims-reacted-to-anthony-albaneses-voice-pitch/m9p6tsndx
http://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/australian-national-imams-council-refuses-to-condemn-propalestine-rally-in-southwest-sydney-which-praised-attacks-on-israel/news-story/ce85ae47c3850f8bdd28253fec4854d0
A controversial Islamic cleric who celebrated Hamas’s attack on Israel at a Rally in Lakemba on the Weekend recently spoke at Muslim community event alongside Prime Minister Anthony Albanese.

Greens Senator Mehreen Faruqi is supporting the rise of Hamas and their agenda to destroy Israel.

Our leaders will take us all to war if they so choose.
- And there isn't anything any one of us individually can do about it.
You only have to look at what Herman Goering said.

http://www.mit.edu/people/fuller/peace/war_goering.html

>>We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."<<

- War is diplomacy by other means,
Many get rich off it, and many die.

Just wait until they kick off this war with China.
The chess pieces are already being moved into position in preparation.
Then there will be death and destruction on a scale unimagined.

US and allies V's Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
- That will make this look like a pubfight after the footy.

'Greens Senator Mehreen Faruqi is supporting the rise of Hamas and their agenda to destroy Israel.'

Is that what the senator said! or what you say was said?

"US and allies V's Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
- That will make this look like a pubfight after the footy."

Possibly,
For the main part the EU attitude will be, 'this has nothing to do with us. and ask the US to remove it's bases lest they become legitimate targets.
NATO will be looking for sustainable support and not quite sure where it's at as it's not a self sustaining entity.
Ukraine is yesterday
The US will push the UK in assisting and dragging Australia and Canada in with it, NZ will likely go neutral as will majority of the South Pacific.
South Korea & Japan will have the option of stay out of it or get hit by NK
The US will have 4 areas of main concern and cannot cover all.
Israel will be the first to go.
And seeing as the process has already started and coming to a head within six months
Australia will do what it always does, wait for divine intervention but this time stay at home.
And to guarantee a cohesive consensus will need a "YES" vote to avoid further marginalization.

http://www.spectator.com.au/2021/12/stench-of-greens/

"Greens senator Mehreen Faruqi criticized the decision to illuminate Canberra's Parliament House in blue and white in support of Israel on Monday night. "One colonial government supporting another. What a disgrace," she wrote on X."

http://aijac.org.au/australia-israel-review/greens-problems-with-israel-and-jews-worsen/
"However, her replacement – Senator Faruqi – appears to have picked up Rhiannon’s torch. As recently as March 30 this year, Senator Faruqi posted photos of herself at a Palestinian demonstration in Sydney with the caption “Palestine will be free”.

Anyone who has heard the prattle of Palestinian demonstrators knows she chose to post only half of the commonly chanted phrase: “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” This phrase is notorious and completely denies Israel’s sovereignty over the land between the Jordan River in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the west – a surprising statement for a politician whose party officially supports a two-state solution".

Yes campaigner spits on No activist during heated confrontation
http://youtu.be/HjcHmwE3zX0

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” This phrase is notorious and completely denies Israel’s sovereignty.

And how did Israel come by this sovereignty?
Did it come in the post.
Was it issued by the Palestinians themselves
Means nothing, as in the words of Bob Dylan, things change

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” I like it!

Hi Josephus,

Yes, I'd wondered why some Muslims were supporting the Voice. I hope that Foxy's good angels have started talking to her. I believe that Hamas terrorists even broke into safe rooms and shot women and kids point blank. I doubt that either Noel or Albo would be happy, and Penny Wong calling for restraint was tasteless, especially as an antisemitic rally at the Opera House calling for the gassing of Jews was allowed, the only arrest being a guy carrying an Israeli flag. The Voice = them and us, we were here first and go back to where you came from. Disgusting. Vote no.

All Australians already have a voice through their local Members of Parliament but the absolute majority of citizens are not heard.
Why would a Voice be heard?
Exactly whose Voice?

Why are the voices of Australian citizens not being heard about vital issues as they should be?

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.”
Special Delivery,
From my viewpoint it looks more like "from the river of blood to the dead sea".
After so many generations & still no agreement means there'll never be an agreement !

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.”
Special Delivery,

Special Delivery should realise that it is a genocidal catch cry, every bit as revolting and offensive as the Nazi salute.

Very sad.

There is irrefutable evidence that Neo-Nazi's ('The Warriors for Convict Resistance') are advocating a'NO' vote. Care to name one Communist organisation advocating a 'YES' vote. If you were forced to line up with the 'NO' mob, you would be standing next to a bloke wearing a balaclava giving a Nazi salute and ratting of with hate speak towards Aboriginal people, not a good look, then again YOU might be comfortable with that look! I can't say.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 7 October 2023 8:43:30 AM

Response-

If Paul1405 is going to talk about Nazi's see the wiki article for more objective information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party
We should try to understand why people believe what they do- of course there is a point which people just repeat their arguments and you have to stop listening.
One reason why people wear masks is to continue to be productive members of the community due doxxing of people of different views by extremists and communists. The Murdoch TV station MyMoney was shutdown by the "Sleeping Giants"- another organisation that uses a "virtual balaclava"- as with Zorro- when the government is corrupt heros become outlaws- but not all masks are heros. The Sleeping Giants are an interesting organisation- the US branch leader was sacked from his job as an advertising specialist for threatening advertising client BMW with racism accusations from memory.

Antifa the so called "Anti-fascist" fascists also use balaclavas in their protests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Giants

Below is interesting...

http://redflag.org.au/article/why-left-should-vote-yes-referendum
http://redflag.org.au/aboutSA
"Socialist Alternative is Australia’s largest Marxist revolutionary group. We have branches in most major cities. Our goal is to overthrow capitalism...We also helped found and organise Melbourne’s successful campaign of antifascist street protests, ... prevented Reclaim Australia ... organising racist street marches in that city.

For years, we led the campaign for marriage equality, organising regular street protests culminating in the mass rallies during the successful plebiscite of 2017.

We are also part of Australia’s most important and successful socialist electoral coalition, the Victorian Socialists..."

It appears that Socialist Alternative above is an extreme communist organisation that is influential within the broad "left" in Australia.

My own body is scarred by domestic violence…We Aboriginal people have to acknowledge the truth. We can’t blame all of our problems on the white man… The Racial Discrimination Act was there to protect us from white racism and we needed that protection. But it has not protected our people from ourselves…the problem now is blackfellas killing blackfellas and killing themselves. (Bess Nungarrayi Price)

I read the interview journalist Patricia Karvelas had
with Foreign Minister Penny Wong. The Foreign Minister
had this to say about the Voice Referendum:

"Let's remember where the Voice came from.
It came through a process of 200 delegates, First Nations
people having been sent there after consultation with
hundreds and hundreds of their peoples. And they issued
this request together. That's where this came from."

The Foreign Minister is right. Let's not be influenced by
the irrelevant and meaningless comments of those who've decided
to be wreckers because they see political advantage - so let us
remember where the Voice came from.

And it matters.

I have now voted.

I wish you all well in casting your votes.

May your better angels influence you.

It came through a process of 200 delegates
Foxy,
200 is way short to represent every clan or as they're now referred to, Nation !
This manipulation of Australian society has already caused less services to the needy & bolstered the pockets of the parasitic activists & those hoping to join the bandwagon !
Morally & economically, NO is the only vote.

I too have voted.
It was reasonably quiet, not too many people there.
I politely thanked the yes campaigners, the no campaigners and the aec staff for their volunteering efforts, and then I left.

"200 is way short to represent every clan"
- agreed.

This whole thing was managed badly.
I think this whole process should've started with baby steps.
An OLO type forum giving voice to all indigenous tribes.
A map on the homepage showing the location and territory of all of them.
Click on one, and it brings up a forum for that tribe.
- And then also have general forums for topics which affect them all.

The fact that many indigenous communities didn't know the first thing about 'The Voice' until a few weeks ago proves that I'm right.

All one needs to do is google 'how many indigenous tribes in australia'
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=how+many+indigenous+tribes+in+australia

Go ahead, click the link - what does it say?
"There are about 500 different Aboriginal peoples in Australia, each with their own language and territory and usually made up of a large number of separate clans. Archaeologists believe that the Aboriginals first came to the Australian continent around 45,000 years ago."

Logic dictates that if there are 500 parties with a vested interest and you only allow the voices of 200, does that sound like all parties were consulted, had representation and had a say?

And then they couldn't even lay out in detail how things would look, and work if it did pass.

The whole thing was and is a shemozzle.

If the government was stupid enough to try to roll this out without all the details, they were in fact creating a situation where misinformation and disinformation was rife, and they should've anticipated it.

- There's a right and wrong way to go about doing things and I'm sorry to say that government has no-one to blame for this mess but themselves.

If you think Ray Martin whose grandmother was part aboriginal, Marcia Langton an avid Communist and Thomas Mayo a Communist and non-aboriginal hanger on need a separate voice because if their connection to aboriginality VOTE YES. If you want a united Australia Vote NO!

The YES vote is about recognition and positivity.
About unification and future progress for a better
country. The NO vote is about negativity, misinformation,
falsehoods, lies, and division.

One side is stressing the positive. The other only negative.

Your choice.

It will be shameful if tomorrow negativity wins.

Foxy,

The YES side is making promises that it has no idea how to achieve, no plan to implement or any protections.

The NO side simply wants more from Albozo than "it will all be OK, trust me"

Shadow Minister,

More misinformation from you.

No wonder you guys are losing elections when
you persist with this sort of rubbish that only
gullible party supporters will believe.

You know darn well that it will be the Parliament,
including Peter Dutton, Jacinta Price, and ALL the
Opposition members now and into the future who will
design the Voice, including its composition,
functions, powers, and procedures.

So you can continue to blow disinformation out of
your back-side - but it won't help your party win
elections. People will cease to trust you.

It's all over, with a big, fat decisive NO.

Hooray.
But what a shocking waste of money and time to write one word.

I wonder how many people will be charged for casting multiple votes? Maybe they will get away with it like those hate filled people in that illegal march the other day?

One issue I thought about was whether this result could also be considered a rejection of 'Welcome to Country' and the changing of Australian place names to indigenous ones.

Yes, if welcome to country/acknowledgement of country remains, it will not surprise me. Realistically, I am more concerned about the interference in business and controls being exercised over the welfare of ordinary Australians by giving some special privileges.

"Yes, if welcome to country/acknowledgement of country remains, it will not surprise me."

Yeah, I think the same - but I'm fairly sure that Albo pushed that policy himself when he was voted in.

"Realistically, I am more concerned about the interference in business and controls being exercised over the welfare of ordinary Australians by giving some special privileges."

- That was probably my main concern in voting 'No'.
That and the fact they didn't want to give full details until after it passed...
- Which just felt off to me like something wasn't right.

Hows Albo's long speech?
I thought it would be really good and I was all excited to see him some eat humble pie but he couldn't even just talk plainly, it was all this mealy-mouthed waffling.
I thought it was quite depressing, and I actually almost felt sorry and pity for how pathetic the whole spectacle was.

400 million dollars to achieve little to nothing.
This 'democracy' seems like a pretty stupid system sometimes.
Maybe it wasn't a total loss, who's to say...

Fester, Your name was marked off by Computer so you could not Vote twice. I was on a booth yesterday and two local aboriginal women came up to us to encourage us. They did not want their family divided by race as they had grandchildren married to non-aboriginals. They did not want their families divided.

Good to know that there were checks being done Josephus.

Don't feel glum about Albo AC. He is just being a self righteous sore loser. Again, no surprise. I felt relieved and encouraged by the result, and hope that a new approach to helping indigenous Australians might bring better outcomes than the centralised, activist dominated system that has been tried for the past half century.

Wackernese is now saying he was 'just delivering a request from aborigines'! Well, the aborigines have delivered him a message: NO, we don't want the Voice. NT, with the largest aboriginal population, 62% NO.

Sanity has prevailed!

Sanity has prevailed!
Hasbeen,
Thankfully yes but it is no guarantee for common sense to make a comeback into the circles of the academic/bureaucratic elite anytime soon !

It's one thing to send Albo packing but what about all the other bureaucrats holding positions of power and influence in government decision making?

ALL the people who fall into the category above who openly supported the 'Yes' vote should also go.

They have shown they are out of touch with the vast majority of the Australian people, and their ideas are not in line with what the citizens have democratically chosen.

They ALL have to go.

Australians voted 'NO' to the 'Voice of Division'

Here's how prominent Australians reacted to the
Indigenous Voice Referendum result:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/14/day-of-sadness-how-prominent-australians-reacted-to-the-indigenous-voice-referendum-result

A day of sadness indeed!

The YES campaign started with such hope
Thinking it was something
With which
Aussies could cope

No one was prepared
For the lies that would come
As a ploy to deceive
Make voters succumb

People believed
The things they were told
All the falsehoods and lies
Country-wide that took hold

The bright shining YES
Swiftly turned in its tracks
And became a big NO
Towards helping the Blacks

Indigenous folk will now
Have to try
To again make a plea
So their kinfolk don't die

But to really succeed
They'll need our support
To allow the real truth
To finally be heard!

Not sure who of our leaders
Are up to the task
To be even-handed
For all is a must

Whatever our differences
Forget our divide
Together lets stand
One nation with pride.

Foxy believes the majority of Australians have been deceived, by voting to make no changes to the constitution.

The booth I was on yesterday the YES campaigners had a sign saying "Nothing to FEAR" Vote with your heart, which immediately raised questions, was there something to fear.

My mantra was "Do not divide Australia by race, Vote NO!" We are a multicultural society and one family, with equal rights. We had one Yes woman Voter place a curse on us as evil that must be destroyed. Pointing the bones are a primitive witch culture that she assumed had the power of death over us.

Jose'

I wouldn't put another down for having unfounded superstitions, if I was you, Christianity, to which you claim to be an adherent, is full of unfounded superstitions, strange "mysteries" and unsubstantiated nonsense. Remove those unfounded superstitions, strange "mysteries", and unsubstantiated nonsense, and the Bible would be a very thin book indeed. I'm sure you are contented in your ignorance.

Its interesting to listen to rather intelligent people (Christians) when confronted with some totally ridiculous passage from the Bible. These "intelligent" people invent some cockamamie nonsense to rationalise this ridiculous rubbish, I call it "Blessed are the Cheesemakers"...."Witch cover all manufacturers of dairy products" (Life Of Brian).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFPIGNua5WM

I still am optimistic that all this can be sorted out.
That we have to listen to each other and find a way
to negotiate so that a mutually agreed result could be
achieved. I'm not sure who it was on TV last night - but
someone pointed out that people are starting to make
progress at the state level. I know that Victoria is.
So perhaps this will happen at the state level first and
eventually to the federal level. Who knows?

Anyway - the fact is - we now have the issue of Indigenous
problems brought out into the open and perhaps something
will come out of all this.

One can only hope. And with hope, perhaps action will
follow.

It needs a Royal Commission into where the monies allocated for aboriginal programs is going, because it is not getting to the disadvantaged. Linda Burney must go as she is incompetent in dealing with aboriginal affairs. She earns $400,000 for her Ministry to aboriginals, and nothing changes for the disadvantaged aboriginals.

The next issue will be treaty between Australians, again in an attempt to divide this country by race [a drop of aboriginal genetic blood]. We are all Australians with equality of position, but there are some who cannot accept the decision of 1967, and want their own Nation to separate from the laws and Government of the elected Westminster Government.

Paul, you make irrational claims. Give one issue where Christianity makes superstitious claims. You should read the New Testament, so you are informed of these supposed superstitions. You accept witchcraft among some aboriginals as fact, but cannot come up with one superstition , just an unfounded claim.

Josephus,

Lets not talk about division. Lets talk about fixing
the problems that our First Nations people live
with everyday. What has been tried to date has not
worked. I think we can all agree on that. Our system
in dealing with our Indigenous people needs to be
overhauled. We need strong leadership for that to
happen.

I agree that Linda Burney does not appear as a strong
leader and probably should be replaced. It shouldn't
be a question of salary - but of who's better qualified
to do the job. Marcia Langton, Lidia Thorpe? Neither
really appeal to me. But I'm sure that there is someone
qualified out there.

Jacinta Price doesn't appeal either.
She's done nothing for her people apart from saying
what she thinks are the right things to ensure her
political position. But no practical achievements for
her people. She had the chance in the past in positions
she's held - and she did nothing.

Perhaps someone suitable will come along. We'll have to
wait and see.

Everyone needs a voice not just Aboriginals- John Stuart Mill says freedom so long as it doesn't affect the freedom of others- Aboriginal freedoms shouldn't undermine the freedoms of others. Each person gets one vote- no special groups- that is democracy- that is why The Voice failed. The Communists seem to want to empower the weak because they know they can control them- but it won't be good for them in the end- because communists want to destroy all culture for a monoculture.

Hi Foxy,

I believe Linda is very unwell and has great difficulty, I would suggest that Pat Dodson should takeover the Aboriginal portfolio. However the old warriors a bit long in the tooth. Lidia Thorpe, she actually talks sense, but she needs to loose the "angry ant' attitude and present the same argument, but in a more reasonable tone, which resonates with moderate progressives, like you and I. Lidia would probably see that attitude as a cop out, and a sell out, but as I've said to more than one aspiring candidate in the past, politics is about the possible, don't compromise your principles, but present them with voter appeal.

"Lets talk about fixing the problems that our First Nations people live with everyday. What has been tried to date has not worked." Simply applying white man solutions to complex black man problems doesn't work, we know that, a new approach is needed, and leadership people like Dutton who advocated for a 'No' vote on Saturday now have a duty to step up and offer a constructive alternative, a better way, which as yet I'm not hearing from any of them. They've played the political game and won that, but these guys now need to step up, and play a different game of "constructive solutions". I suspect Dutton really doesn't give a stuff about Aboriginal people, and given the political opportunity he'd do exactly that, stuff them. The platitudes of "recognition" are window dressing with nothing concrete to back it up.

Hi Paul,

Hopefully things will sort themselves out.
I'm sure that the Indigenous leaders will continue
to work hard and try to achieve things for their
people. They're a resilient people and they want
to leave a better life for their children. So I don't
see them giving up.

I'm sorry to hear about Linda Burney's health. She did
not appear well in her last TV appearance.

I watched Q and A last night. Lidia Thorpe was supposed to
be on the panel. Instead they had Alexander Downer. No more
needs to be said.

I'll again watch the news today - hoping there's something
more positive to hear.

The indigenous need jobs and hope and role models to help them achieve it. Then they need a plan to improve their communities, and their sense of worth instead of being angry and resentful with little on the horizon. Then they need the courage to include themselves in society not demand more from it.

Armchair,

That's 100 percent true and correct.
And many non indigenous need similar.

The only competent aboriginal Leader in this country is Jacinta Price, who brought a mob from Alice Springs to Canberra to seek help, but was ignored by all members of the government, including Linda Burney. They did not want to listen to their advice, but just brushed them off. This Government is not interested in Advice, which is the reason they failed.
Jacinta is asking for a royal Commission into where the money went in aboriginal affairs.

I have always believed the "Voice" was supported by Islam, and we have evidence of this at Pine Gap this morning where one hundred Islamic extremists met outside the facility to protest the war against Palestine. Australia is being drawn into the conflict by people who cannot live peacefully with their neighbours.

Hi Josephus,
After reading your comment the first thing I though was 'Yeah that's true, I've heard of that 'indigenous and Islam' but the 'Islamic extremists' part I though better check this out'...
At the same time I thought 'better that they are spakking out over there than disrupting our cities'..

Then I looked up and read the news article:
- And from what I'm reading here its actually not so bad.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8394144/pro-palestine-activists-block-entry-to-pine-gap-base/

>>The group, which included members of the Alice Springs Jewish and Indigenous communities, wanted to show solidarity with the Palestinian people, Nic said.
"The Australian government needs to stand up and call on the Israeli government to stop bombing civilians in Gaza," she told AAP after the protest.
"We want the Australian government to make that call and stand up against war crimes and genocide."...

Pine Gap protest organiser Shoshana Rosenberg, an academic based in Melbourne, said one of the Jewish activists read a traditional prayer of mourning.
"This is an event of public grief and mourning, as well as action and movement towards a ceasefire," she said.<<

I haven't seen any footage, but I'd probably see that as a positive sign rather than a negative one"

It may show that younger Jews don't want to continue this cycle of violence and hope for a more peaceful future between Israels and Palestinians, maybe?

Proud Boy Jose'

Caught out lying again, what's new! After all you were lying about two of your favourite hates, Muslims and Aboriginals. I would thinks all decent Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhist etc, would be disgusted at the atrocities being committed in the Middle East, by both sides, but not you of course, people of your ilk believe Muslims and Aboriginals are sub-human, and get what they deserve.

I came across the 112 page 'Voice to Parliament' document.
It's here, but I also found another copy of it listed in order of Document 1 to Document 14.
http://www.skynews.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Credlin-Editorial-PDF-2.pdf

On page 17 of 26 - Document 14, it says.

Voice to Parliament
A constitutionally entrenched Voice to Parliament was a strongly supported option across the Dialogues. It was considered as a way by which the right to self-determination could be achieved. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples need to be involved in the design of any model for the Voice. There was a concern that the proposed body would have insufficient power if its constitutional function was ‘advisory’ only, and there was support in many Dialogues for it to be given stronger powers so that it could be a mechanism for providing ‘free, prior and informed consent’. Any Voice to Parliament should be designed so that it could support and promote a treaty-making process. Any body must have authority from, be representative of, and have
legitimacy in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities across Australia. It must represent communities in remote, rural and urban areas, and not be comprised of handpicked leaders. The body must be structured in a way that respects culture. Any body must also
be supported by a sufficient and guaranteed budget, with access to its own independent secretariat, experts and lawyers. It was also suggested that the body could represent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples internationally. A number of Dialogues considered ways that political representation could be achieved other than through the proposed constitutional Voice. These included through the designation of seats in Parliament for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples (although there was some concern that these politicians would be bound by party politics), the creation of a ‘Black Parliament’ that represents communities across Australia. There was discussion about how these reforms could be connected to a constitutional body. For instance, the body’s representation could be drawn from an Assembly of First Nations, which could be established
through a series of treaties among nations.

[Cont.]
"It was considered as a way by which the right to self-determination could be achieved."
"Any body must also be supported by a sufficient and guaranteed budget, with access to its own independent secretariat, experts and lawyers."

So basically they wanted their own country, (nothing to do with 'unity' no wonder it was considered divisive) and they also wanted us to pay for it?

Interesting that this info had to come from a FOI request and was not offered freely to the citizens who were to vote on it.

I never dug into any of this before, can anyone else give me a quick run down?

You all want to know why I voted No, so you can stop blaming and shaming?

Because being unwilling to give all the details 'fine print', smelled both dishonest, and nefarious. That's why.
And I said this right in the beginning.

So to all the 'blamers and shamers'; you can shove it.
They try to make any excuse when they were unable to sell this to the majority on it's own merits, and they will probably push forward with this however they can anyway using UNDRIP and treaty, despite the 'NO' vote.

Lets say they do want Internal right to Self determination.
Which part of the country do we cut off and give to them, (since all of it has cultural significance) or should we all just leave, and if they have their own laws in their own lands that we need permission to enter (effectively not OUR country, no-go areas) then should we provide any further funding to them?

Maybe we should all just leave and give them everything.
What exactly do they want?

Hi AC,

"Because being unwilling to give all the details 'fine print', smelled both dishonest, and nefarious. That's why. And I said this right in the beginning."

Fair comment AC, and as a YES voter I seen that as the weakness in the YES case. I didn't want a referendum at this time to begin with, it was a tactical error on the Governments part. Legislation first for a period, with a referendum on constitutional recognition and enshrinement to follow. When it can be demonstrated that no harm was to come of it. Simply put as two questions not one as it was.

Paul, I dislike ideologies that socially divide people by race, religion, politics etc. I can respect and care for everyone. You cannot understand that.

The Yes campaign cannot give up as it is led by communists like Langton and [non-aboriginal] Mayo, and time is no object to them. Aboriginals have been given full citizenship in Australia, but some cannot accept that and want their own national identity. Being Australian does not deny them practicing their culture, but if it means returning to pre-1788, I do not think they want that - too violent. There will always be a push to change the constitution by the ideologues of Communists and Islam, to bring laws that mean Treaty and pay the rent [jizya tax]

Proud Boy Jose'

"The Yes campaign cannot give up as it is led by communists like Langton and [non-aboriginal] Mayo"

That sort of comment shows you to be such a misguided twit. If they are communists, a subject you have zero knowledge of, then you are a Fascists. You were exposed as a liar several times recently on the Forum, so give up while you're behind.

Paul in this case you are the liar, they have both confessed allegiance to marxism.

Jose,

In the case of Marcia Langton she joined the Communist league before she was 20 now she's over 70, 50 years ago. Do you think people might change their political views in 50 years. In my case I have, but I doubt you have, judging by what lies and racists comments you post on this forum.

During the early 1970s, Langton was one of three leaders of the Communist League which merged into the Socialist Workers Party around 1976.

This shows that Langton was more than a dilettante and was neck-deep in the communist movement.