Pericles... I disagree that raising awareness of radical Islam will increase the problem. It will simply show what is already there more clearly.

Just as when you pour developer on a print..and the image becomes clearer.. same here. It was already there...but you just couldn't see it.

I do agree that the police are doing a wonderful job. But remember.. police are their to uphold the law as it stands.... failure to recognize dangerous political trends, could have us with horrific laws which STILL have to be enforced by those same police.

Such was the case when Hitler gained power...same police...different laws... the key is POLITICAL power.. and that can be leveraged by skilful manipulators.

This morning I was chatting with a Jewish lady, who's husband and she herself.. are STILL traumatized by the echoes and reality of the holocaust. You probably have little idea just how ingrained the fear of a repeat is on their psyche's.

They are equally afraid of 'new laws' which might cause them problems and exposure to the same kind of hate which caused the original.
Given the symphonic type orchestra I showed in a Hezbollah video with them all singing 'DEATH to Israel'.... I can identify with their fears.

Boaz, if this is your response to my "...is the problem likely to get a) larger or b) smaller, if you keep picking at it like an old scab?" question, I'm not at all sure that you understand it too clearly.

>>Pericles... I disagree that raising awareness of radical Islam will increase the problem. It will simply show what is already there more clearly<<

One man's "raising awareness" is another man's vicious attack.

It's like calling Hitler's (you brought him into the discussion, not I) speech at the Nürnberg Rallies "raising awareness of radical Judaism". 'It simply showed the German people what was already there, only more clearly'.

>>failure to recognize dangerous political trends, could have us with horrific laws<<

It is obviously fashionable amongst the Christian rabble-rousers to rush around saying "Sharia is coming, Sharia is coming", in a bid to frighten the children.

The reason this is so insulting is that it shows such a sneering contempt of the Australian people, who - we are reliably informed by said rabble-rousers - are so stupid that they do not see that their charitable and tolerant attitudes are in fact abject submission to the will of an alien force.

And as for this...

>>This morning I was chatting with a Jewish lady, who's husband and she herself.. are STILL traumatized by the echoes and reality of the holocaust. You probably have little idea just how ingrained the fear of a repeat is on their psyche's. They are equally afraid of 'new laws' which might cause them problems and exposure to the same kind of hate which caused the original.<<

And what, exactly, are these laws?

How will they be framed, by whom, when, and how would they then become the law of the land?

Preposterous nonsense.

Pericles.. I applaud your faith in the average Aussie to make up his or her own mind... truly....

The main problem with this is as follows:

People can only make up their mind based on adequate information....

Now.. example. I was reading a large book this morning, called "What is Islam" and in that, it refers to 'Jihad' among many other things.

The untrained eye will read this and not see the SERIOUS key words and how they hide the true nature of what is being said.

"Islam does not believe in killing 'innocent' civilians".

Should I remind you how the radical Muslim regards Western Kaffirs ?

Enter stage left 'Abu Izzadeen' UK "NO KAFFIR IS INNOCENT"

Then.. nestled among the warm fuzzy terminology is this gem.

There are only 3 reasons for military Jihad...(The first 2 don't matter)

3/ Where Da'wah is prohited.

What this means in reality is.. if Australia prohibited the proclamation of Islam... we are a target for military attack.

Most people will read this chapter without even seeing this.

But there is more. Do you think Susan Carland would have converted if she knew that in Islam her testimony is only worth half that of a man? or..that she is described as all manner of snare and corrupter simply because she is a woman in the Hadith...

NOW.. the REAL problem...

Under our current law, IF.. I went to Monash Uni, and stood outside her office or faculty with signs to the above effect.. the LAW would be applied to me as it was to the 2 Danny's.

So..here is the sequence.

1/ Make a law which prevents insulting Islam (or any faith, except Christianity ...in effect)

2/ Promote Islam with sugar coating and minimal, selective information .

You and I both know how the ICV would treat Kactuz regarding his recent posts.

So.... my response still stands.

I pray that neither you or me or our families become victims of any bomb created out of the 400 kg of Ammonium Nitrate recently stolen from a train in Newcastle.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20646620-421,00.html

Oz
My apologies- I got side tracked.
Permission given by Allah. That’s huge. There are so many Muftis and teachers.
I will stay within Australia to make it easier and address matters of interest.
You won’t be surprised I am sure if I raise Animal Welfare firstly.

I find it interesting that Australian Muslim leaders have spoken out about Live Animal Export being unnecessarily cruel while our Christian Leaders have remained silent most of them]
Here is the Media Release from Dr Ali the last President of AFIC [Australian Federation of Islamic Council and councils.
http://www.livexports.com/
I am yet to see a similar step taken by our Christian Leaders?
This is something we hassle poor Boazie about.

I think OZ there is only right and wrong. Good people and bad people. There are no shades of grey or in between. Right or wrong. Lawful or unlawful for all man kind.

Good Muslim and Christians also people only want to share kindness to all others and Gods creatures and have compassion and love in their heart.
Then you get just like we do some real dick heads that call for a holy war and tell their people to kill the west until the last drop of infidel blood is gone. [Or words similar]
Like that idiot bin larden. Hope I didn’t get the spelling wrong I might offend the prick.
In Australia I think if we knew we had people wanting to wage a holy war then they should be goaled.
In other words they should not be able to use the defense that they were only following Allah or the Koran just because they had bin larden as their their teacher.
In other words if you have had a dodgy spiritual teacher you should not be able to use that as a defense in our justice system.
Australia is peaceful the way it is.

Oz

I would also like to add I don’t think any of us can afford to live in the stone ages.
We used to get up Bozies nose to get attention from him by saying. Hey Boaz- how come you tell us to follow that book when in those days they used to believe that the world was flat and people with epileptic fits or mental illness were possessed by the devil?

Can’t you see Bozie the Church has to get a bit more up to date and modern before they loose their members? Clearly modern day have proved that wrong.
I can’t say we ever got a reply despite our taunting the poor guy- except once he said- [I think] yes they were.] The ones the lord healed “were” possessed by the devil”?
`Let us pray`
We left it at that.
One day we put up a comment offering a counter argument for Boaz for Muslims just like we had for Christians.
We asked him to ask- How come the Koran teacher’s alcohol and no sinning, bad woman etc-but it’s taught and believed by ‘some’ Muslims that the so called Maters and suicide bombers such as ones that flew the planes into the World trade center are rewarded with all the wine and women they can handle?
The comparisons are exactly the same Oz.
Its time we all grew up and learned to get along- and for goodness sake update our relevant books such as the bible or the Koran.
Allah in particular I believe must have and also a clever business man.
The new Mufti has given his blessings to show compassion to Animals by pre stunning. I think he will make a great Australian leader for all Australians including Christians and we are asking Christian leaders to do the same regarding Kosha.
We will be 'insisting on it' with the support of our Muslim brothers and sisters of this wonderful country.
blessings and peace to all.

September 11 2007
Lets we forget

"Lets we forget"

Good idea. Let's start with this silly thread :)