Yeah, but WWS is being deployed right now.
Cheaply.
Safely.
While nuclear remains unpopular and ILLEGAL in Australia. If you have a magic wand to change that cultural and legislative aspect of Australia Hasbeen - then go for it! I've been trying for over 16 years!

By the time you get there we'll have a WIND, WATER AND SOLAR GRID!

Don't believe PHES is popular?

I'll remind you of Walpole. They've broken ground, and it's going to be finished by the end of 2023. When finished, if a tree comes down and severs the line, the little town of Walpole will have nearly 3 days of power to get them through until that line can be repaired.

ABC news story
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-01/renewable-energy-fix-walpole-power-problems/100579700

Western Power promo - Walpole looks like many coastal Aussie towns. Makes me nostalgic and need a holiday. Kick back and enjoy - 3 minutes.
http://youtu.be/vGqdYhVfYwM

Hi Max

"do you believe in free markets? Why should coal get the biggest subsidies of them all - especially when it costs our health services $6 billion a year ON TOP of the electricity price?"

Energy is subsidised because cheap energy is a driver of economic activity. If you read the Quadrant article linked by Luciferase you would know than very large subsidies are given to wind and solar, and Andy B erroneously uses the subsidised prices as evidence that they are cheap.

I would very much like to know where all those coal subsidies go Max, because none of them go to the coal producers I own shares in. One pays over 20% of its revenue in coal royalties. It also pays tax, and I often see Dumbanese complaining about the "obscene profits" of the fossil fuel industry. The company gets zilch in subsidies, unlike many renewable energy companies that would hit the wall without corporate welfare.

Thanks to the efforts of assorted renewable energy spruikers I am getting over a 100% return every three months, so I guess I should be happy that people are being fooled Max.

Hi Max,
There's a big difference between powering a nation and powering Walpole. The comparison point for Walpole is diesel versus intermittents plus PHES where conditions are conducive. That's not the equation nationally but let's not let that get in the way of a good story. Dream on Max, as the boffins and enthusiasts with their hands up Bowen's behind Pied-Piper us to ruin.

The thing is, there isn't that much difference.

Solar + Wind + PHES is cheaper than coal. This is true at Walpole - and the scale of Walpole can be rebuilt across the country for other similar small towns. There is simply that much hilly terrain that off-river PHES resource is something like 300 to 1000 times MORE than we need for an all renewable grid.

Even with HVDC transmission built across the nation it's still cheaper.

There's even times when PHES saves building new transmission. Someone builds a 200 MW solar farm and the local transmission can only take 100 MW. Build new transmission - or PHES to send that 200 MW Daytime into 100 MW daytime and 100 MW overnight?

The point is this is happening, now, with existing technology. If anything cheaper comes along, AWESOME! The human race wins. But Australia will be mostly clean in just 10 to 15 years. Done and dusted.

When it happens, don't worry. The world will be a better place. You'll love us when we win. Then all you silly old national party types can just have a mug of warm cocoa before bed and try and calm the hell down a bit, and pretend you "always knew it was going to go this way ..." (Yeah, right!)

Max,

PHES for Walpole does a few of hours (if fully charged) to displace diesel from the backup task. It's a looooooong way from being 100% renewables yet you claim it serves as an example to be emulated nationally. Nobody in Walpole will sell their diesel generator because supply isn't reliable with PHES. Walpole isn't going off-grid for the same reason. If Walpole teaches anything it is that even where conditions are totally conducive to PHES it will never be enough and backup will still needed, i.e. one reliable system for the price of two.

I do hope the dreamers stand up to cop it sweet when we're suffering restrictions, blackouts, de-industrialization and high consumer prices. That's me dreaming now, of course, as they'll just keep saying more intermittents will fix it.

“PHES for Walpole does a few of hours (if fully charged) to displace diesel from the backup task.”

It’s not my fault you embarrass yourself like this.
It’s only a short ABC article.
It’s not a long technical paper like some of you snap your fingers and demand I read!
“Power Research and Development, a WA-based company, wants to build a 1.5-megawatt pumped hydro project capable of powering the town of Walpole on the state's south coast for up to 70 hours.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-01/renewable-energy-fix-walpole-power-problems/100579700

“It's a looooooong way from being 100% renewables yet you claim it serves as an example to be emulated nationally.”

I disagree. As far as the storage goes – it’s a looooooong way towards DEMONSTRATING that all sorts of scales of PHES work! What’s the scale of this one?

“A start-up firm will build the world's smallest pumped hydro project at Walpole in Western Australia”

The worlds’ smallest.

Yet it’s economically viable.

That means the MEGA ones that will service our capital cities are even more viable!

I just watched Blakers give the satellite results of his quick WORLD survey of PHES sites, with all the national parks already removed for environmental reasons. The whole WORLD has 100 times more PHES potential than it needs.

Summary: Australia’s largest pumped hydro site is Tumut 3. It has a head of 151 m. But the Blakers team investigated Australia’s PHES sites and confined the search to sites with a head of over 300 metres – so double the head means double the power and energy – but NOT double the costs! The tunnels are just a big longer. What did they find?

Only 22,000 sites – where 20 to 40 (depending on size) would power the whole of Australia.

You sound like you need a refresher. Just watch 5 to 10 minutes of Prof Blakers here.
http://youtu.be/_Lk3elu3zf4?t=982