Cornflower: your writing skills, terms, language and thought processes seem identical to that of Leigh's. You judged poor Stan on his parenting skills and boundaries set for his adult daughters LOL! Stan stated his daughters are 26yrs and 22yrs respectively. Why on earth would a father be questioning or setting boundaries for two adult daughters? Read peoples' postings very carefully prior to judging them. Stan in all probability, like many fathers, has really 'been there' for his daughters and/or is currently. I agree with you Stan; after morals and values are instilled into teenagers, support and guidance given through their teenage years; it is then their decision either way.

Or there may be many "young people" in Australia with a big problem.

"Oh no Mum and Dad, once on our honeymoon, Richard and I attempted to consummate our marriage, and GUESS WHAT? Richard's p...s did not fit. He is way too large for me Dad! And it was you Dad [and Mum] who advised us 'to wait'. Dad looked down at the floor, scratching his head, Mum looked away with a sad expression on her face. Daughter with tears in her eyes asked "Whom intends paying for poor Richard's medical costs for his operation"?

woulfe: Thank you for that information and for the link. I was preoccupied elsewhere back then and didn't see that thread. Interesting reading, and sad.

The thing that made me cringe most was that I'm a Christian myself and yet I don't want to associate with the kinds of people who would write many of the things I saw there.

Nevermind. We're supposed to know them by their froots.

Spock
I understand your concerns about where we are heading on some fronts but let's not replace the current self-interested mess with another dressed up in different clothing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in Abbott voicing his opinions. They are just that - his opinions. We are all adult enough to form our own conclusions. If you put your opinions out in the public arena expect some reaction.

There are some great things about the good old days but there are some things that are better now. We have to acknowledge what is better and what is not, but not throw the baby out with the bath water.

The Christians I know are not advocating for women to become 'gifts' to men but individuals in their own right in loving, caring and mutually respecting relationships.

If a woman or man finds themselves left as a single parent what does Warwick and his ilk believe we should do with them. A Chrisitian or humanist would seek to assist them not villify them, in my faded book anyway.

First thing is to say "Shame, shame, shame" too all of you for reading the Women's Monthly, it's correct name.

Then, the author wants to know what's wrong with Abbott saying whatever he did say. Give us a break pal!

If Abbott said it, it's offensive, Howard's opinion by proxy and always, yes always, saiod for no reason at all. No thought involved. These are his real opinions you see. As told to him by Howard during all those years of cringing at his feet. He's still doing it and is now speaking for him.

That's what is offensive. Forget the hypocrisy of him doing the opposite of what he espouses. Forget his claiming a child that wasn't his, thus revealing a girlfriend, out of wedlock, was two timing him. Loser Abbott.

Spok "Society is a mess! It isn't working" - compared to what?
There is plenty of room for improvement and some things which appear to have gotten worse but your claim is at a different level.

If you are comparing to an idealised version of society then it's going to always be a mess and not working. If you are yearning for the imagined history of the past when people kept their shame out of sight then you have to ignore a lot that we have learned about our past to imagine that things are overall worse.

If you are looking to an imagined society where some religion's moral codes are genuinely held by most and enforced on the rest then you have to ignore much about how followers of religion tend to treat the teachings of their own faiths when out of sight.

We can do better but we have also done much worse.

R0bert

we are unique,

You silly little sausage, your attention span and comprehension are woeful. Stan was contrasting the way be raised his girls with that of Mr Abbott. Stan is so libertarian (he thinks) because he gave no advice and Abbott is supposed to be an interfering curmudgeon because he did. You don't really believe that Mr Abbott or Stan would be giving grown women of 26 and 22yrs sex advice do you?

Think about it child, you are mind reading and speculating about how Stan might have raised his daughters when he has already told you.

we are unique, "I agree with you Stan; after morals and values are instilled into teenagers, support and guidance given through their teenage years; it is then their decision either way."

Where did Stan ever refer to "instilling morals and values into teenagers (etc)"? He didn't say any of that, did he and you made it all up. These words and sentiments are unique to you (pun intended).