Well why should anyone tolerate religion? You should tolerate people that have different beliefs but where is the rule you have to personally tolerate religion itself? That is idiotic.

Political persecution, religious persecution – same thing
Political free speech, religious free speech – same thing.

If you are censored in how any belief system impacts your life by being called xenophobic, racist or any other lazy idiotic term then you will embrace extremism views. Same in politics, if you have no say and emanded to accept or tolerate political movements then you are being persecuted. If some extremist political movement comes out to play you see them as the only viable option you will support it.

The failure was right from the start when tolerance of the ideology was confused with the real human right of tolerating people with different views, not having to adopt the symbols or associated cultures themselves. There is no law anywhere you need to tolerate anything, only people rights to have an opposing or different belief system. The people being forced to tolerate is actually political persecution. This has allowed extremism to gain support.

There is nothing wrong with objecting to these minarets. They are a cultural thing that will add or subtract to the vista of residents. In itself it is not religious persecution. The methods used to garner support perhaps are, but then the failure to allow free and open dialogue on the religious impact on society is political persecution. The fact the unfortunate way it has been arrived at is proof positive that other political parties have failed to uphold the right to an opinion and a say in how a cultural evolves or is protected, and that is a basic human right for all.

'The Swiss have just demonstrated how profoundly intolerant they are, to their very great shame.'

CJ, the flip-side to your comment is more likely to be true. Swiss people enjoy being Swiss, and prefer to be Swiss.

Protecting the culture that you know and love is not immoral, wrong, or bad as long as you don't use violence. So let's face reality here. Absolutely no one has been hurt, maimed or disfigured. Minarets don't feel pain or suffering. The only thing damaged here is the arrogant pride of an absolutest monotheistic religion. And that is a good thing.

Honestly that whole matter is being politicized.

Minarets are only a decorative piece to Mosques for the last half a century or so. They were needed before the invention of microphones to alarm people of prayer times.

Now there are loads of digital devices that remind Muslims of prayer time and direction. I don’t see anything wrong with a mosque without a minaret.

Peace,

Not the quote that I had in mind, HermanYutic.

>>Always a pleasure to provide clarification. If you want any more...
"Ask and you will receive" Matthew 7:7; Luke 11:9.<<

I was thinking more along the lines of Matthew 5:43-45

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

You so clearly do not consider this to be particularly useful advice, do you, HermanYutic.

But the very idea of expecting Christians to follow the teachings of Jesus is as laughable as believing that Muslims follow every instruction in the Qur'an, is it not?

But then again, I long since gave up expecting any consistency from those who profess to "follow" a religion.

I can only conclude that the sheer mental contortions required to allow yourself to believe that there is actually a God out there, leaves you completely bereft of the faculties necessary to determine right from wrong.

>>Maybe you can clarify something for me. What has stating the historical truth about Mohammed got to do with intolerance?<<

But you weren't, were you?

You were instead sitting in judgement on a historical figure whom you describe as a "a desert dwelling despot".

Has your religion taught you nothing about generosity of spirit, tolerance, kindness and understanding?

That question was entirely rhetorical, by the way.

It must be very uncomfortable for you to live in constant fear, the way that you obviously do.

But you could always join Mario Borghezio, and adopt a slight variation of his motto, "Switzerland forever white and Christian."

Best of luck if you choose to go and live there, by the way.

Fellow_Human

At bottom I don’t think this has anything to do with minarets. I think the vote reflects a growing fear of, and antipathy towards, Islam in Europe.

This article from the website of the German newsmagazine, Spiegel, indicates that perhaps the Germans would have voted in a similar manner to the Swiss.

See:

Swiss Minaret Ban Reflects Fear of Islam, Not Real Problems

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,15...

Quote:

Concern about growing numbers of Muslims and the visibility of Islam isn't, of course, just limited to Switzerland. Both Cologne and Copenhagen have seen minaret debates of their own, the burqa is an issue in France and anti-Muslim politicians have had great success in Holland. So far, centrist politicians across the continent have failed to find an adequate response to the growing concern.

As such, it would be inaccurate to explain away the Swiss referendum results by merely pointing to xenophobia in the country. IT IS ALSO AN EXPRESSION OF THE FAILURES OF THE LIBERAL POLITICAL ELITE TO ADEQUATELY ADDRESS THE ISSUE AND TO FIND SOLUTIONS TO THE REAL AND PERCEIVED PROBLEMS WITH MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS. (Capitalisation added)

End quotes.

Note that Spiegel is one of the most influential media outlets in Germany. It is a sort of cross between TIME and The Economist.

The issue is far more complex, then simply a bit of intolerance,
as many are suggesting.

I lived in Paris for a couple of years and believe me, every
nationality on the planet lives there, in reasonable harmony.

The minarets in Langenthal, a county hick town, started off as
an architectural issue, which applies to any building, regarding
colour, building materials etc.

It blew up from there and political Islam bears its share
of responsibility. Huge mosques with huge minarets, financed
by Saudi petrodollars, have become an Islamic political statement
about the future. At the same time, some Islamic leaders are
making it plain that due to their high birthrates, compared to
your average European, their intention is to turn Europe into
an Islamic state, by sheer force of demographics and time.

In England and Holland, they want Sharia law etc. Most Europeans
are a pretty tolerant lot, but when what are largely guests,
ie asylum seekers who were helped, rather then even try and
assimilate, act in that kind of arrogant fashion, it pisses
off the most tolerant of people and they will react, as happened
in Switzerland.