I am not saying they are terrorists or whatevers. They are a bunch of whining cry babies. They are not denied any right. They can live quite well and follow their faith. Many swiss muslims voted in favour of the ban..because they are swiss..not Arab (even the word is Arabic). It is cultural imperialism and I belive paid for by outside powers more often than not.

They should get over their cheap selves, not very Christian of them..Islamic or whatever.Ha Yes we are a religion of peace provided we always get our own way. Humble...NOT. Really they have nothing to complain about but that is all they ever do.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

In the West (Dar al-Harb: the house of war. This is the name for the West in the Muslim world) we generally assume that a person is telling the truth because we believe lying to be immoral.

However, the practice of dissimulation (or taqiyyah) is endorsed under Islam if it is used to shield from danger or to further the cause of Islam.

Practically speaking, this means that lying is permitted when dealing with infidels.

The upshot of this is that we cannot be sure whether grateful is genuinely ignorant of the historical fact that Islam was spread by the sword or if grateful is engaged in deceit, justified in the knowledge that he/she is acting in accordance with Mohammed's injunctions.

Is grateful playing on the goodwill of those who read his/her post or is grateful the only Muslim on the planet who doesn't know what Mohammed did to the Jews of Khaybar or the Banu Qurayza tribe?

grateful might want to brush up on his Koran:

Sura 8:39-40: “Say to the infidels: If they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven them; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's.”

Sura 9:5: "Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush."

Sura 9:123: “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him.”

And so on goes the Koran, telling the faithful to kill those who refuse to accept Islam.

grateful would have us believe that Mohammed went door-knocking.

Would you slam the door in Mohammed's face after you'd seen his bloodied sword?

Cripes, there goes the neighbourhood.

I think I'd prefer minarets. At least they can be aesthetically beautiful.

The lunatics have certainly taken over this asylum.

Herman,
You make it sould a bit like "Simon says"

Unlike Herman, Grateful says: DON"T rely on my word!

Go to leading (non-Muslim) scholars in Islam, those who have been able to publish in peer review articles and have a clear interest in protecting the integrity of their research, and ask questions such as:

"Was Islam spread by the sword?"

"Was Muhammad recognised, even by his most trenchant enemies, as an honest person?"

"Has the Qur'aan that we recite today been maintained uncorrupted since the time of its first revelation?"

Grateful also says:

"Ask of those who, like Herman, lift quotes from hadith and Qur'aan and apply their own interpretation, WHY they do not cite proof of their interpretation from well recognised Islamic scholars, or, alternatively, only seek out the opinion of the extremist Wahhabi sect."

"Ask why people like Herman do NOT provide proof for their various assertions by refering these issues of contention to recognised (non-Muslim) scholars of Islam"

Grateful thinks people like Herman need a lesson or two in critical thought and scientific reasoning. I was tempted to say that he appears to share the same mentality as the Wahhabis and so represent a threat to civilised society, whether it be Western or Islamic, but i should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Take care Herman

salaams

Good grief, Boaz is back.

>>Would you slam the door in Mohammed's face after you'd seen his bloodied sword?<<

A post riddled with carefully selected verses from the Qur'an, accompanied by a shrug of the "well, they said it, not me" fundamentalist Christian shoulders.

Now, where have we seen that before?

They all bang away at the same hate-filled drum, and wonder why normal people thinks they are religious bigots.

A pox on all their houses.

Sigh- not sure where to begin.

"CIR is scary"- yes, because giving a handful of career politicians and some of their privileged lobbyist partners full sway over our country's policies in their OWN interests only, and allowing private developers to do whatever they like- with everyone else powerless to stop them- has worked SO well for Australia hasn't it?
CIR is probably the simplest system to get the 'right' result- the side that's "correct" simply has to state their case- if it in fact actually counters the other's arguments it would most likely get ahead. The fact that the other side made no convincing case means they have only themselves to blame- not the other side (and I must say it's an interesting sensation to see most political parties and church groups join forces against the broad public and LOSE- unlike here where they both can turn our cities into police states to host private functions).
And don't give me any rubbish about "oh, the people are stupid they won't listen"- give me one example when a supposedly superior ideology was trumped by an inferior one in a referendum (and WHY they are such to each other), and I will happily give a theory of why it was shot down (or plain wrong).

Anyway- people of any country should have absolutely every RIGHT to directly say what kind of buildings they want and don't want built in their neighbourhoods, for whatever reasons they like- and it should apply independently of what Muslim countries do (most actually DO allow other temples to be constructed save the Arabian states, for your information- not that I see it matters even if they don't- it's their country).
We either have oppressive majorities/governments inhibiting free construction or we end up as a playground for the rich or influential- take your pick.

And considering some rather radical immigration proposals got voted DOWN by the public previously, the majority hardly seems particularly tyrannical.