"in romantic relationships, young boys are encouraged to communicate in a feminine style, and to meet the female's needs"

Further to that, males are very protective of talking about their real feelings. When I hear a man talking about his feelings, I assume that he is lying. Girls need to be told about this as most of the young women that I know are amazingly naive about this.

Men who are reluctant to talk about their feelings should be respected for their honesty. Those that talk about their feelings tend to be better liars than the rest of us. Young women need to accept that some issues are personal and private. Questions about feelings should-not be asked.

Antiseptic:

<"... Beyond Blue has been hijacked by the feminist lobby, with massive amounts of funding going to whinging women with PND and almost nothing being spent to stop men topping themselves">

Please show proof of your statement. Govt MH services are provided to everyone as needed. Non-acute MH care is provided (Medicare subsidized) by private practitioners and NGOs on referral from a GP.

<"A great deal of males suicide in the context of family breakdown, following years of struggling with a system that is inherently hostile with no support, often very soon after having had the CSA... and ...">

A great deal of male suicide also occurs as a result of child sexual abuse; rape and assault. Please don't discount that or sweep them out of sight.

Houellebecq: <" How could you not understand? Seriously. I think you're proving how clueless you really are about equality. Raving about women being reduced to sex objects, ever protective of young women's body image...>

You have previously harped that sexualization of children and women is a non-issue; suggested that you'd like to be a sex object and advised fellas to do something like go home look at their genitals and be grateful, thereby minimizing or denying the effect of cultural images on individuals and the larger society.

While I believe that it's appropriate for me to describe how various portrayals of women effect me and how other women might consider ads pertaining to females; I don't think it is my place to assume authority over how men feel about or are affected (or not) by ads about them or how they want to exhibit masculinity.

Rather than assume such a role I'm saying that I want to hear and understand what you think ads like that say about men; I am supporting you (or other men) in whatever action you all consider appropriate.

Background to the pinky ad:

http://www.thinktv.com.au/media/Case_Studies/RTA_Case%20Study_Jun08_2.pdf

News story and comments - award and mixed reaction re pinky.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23267238-2,00.html?from=public_rss

The RTA which sponsored the ad held it back for two years worrying about appropriateness:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/rta-gave-the-finger-to-acclaimed-pinkie-ad-20090830-f3zu.html?comments=47

pynchme,

'While I believe that it's appropriate for me to describe how various portrayals of women effect me and how other women might consider ads pertaining to females; I don't think it is my place to assume authority over how men feel about or are affected (or not) by ads about them or how they want to exhibit masculinity.'

Oh come off it, that's a cop out. So you apply one standard to women and go, awe, maybe men wouldn't mind. Do you wonder weather maybe men don't mind when they're raped; because you're not a man, you wouldn't know? So you are somehow unaware of any societal attitudes to the relationship between sexual adequacy and penis size?

Same as the advert with a woman snapping phallic symbols because her boyfriend isn't romantic enough; Reverse the genders and they would never be acceptable. It seems to me you're really just encouraging one standard for women and another for men. That's not equality.

'I am supporting you (or other men) in whatever action you all consider appropriate'

So you'd be happy with the adverts if no men said they found it offensive? (Which you know isn't true because it was controversial when it came out). That means you don't generally think it's offensive to belittle or ridcule people's sexual adequacy.

BTW: The ad is nothing to do with 'sexualising' men. When women are 'sexualised' it's in the positive light of desire. This advert is to do with belittling men, not sexualising them. The advert portrays more a hatred of men than a hatred of speeding. I'd be happy with an advert that reduced men to the size of their penis as an object of desire.

Houellebecq, surely you don't need a feminist to tell you how to express your masculinity. As long as defining your masculinity doesn't involve misusung other people I don't care how you decide to be.

You just saying, "Ahh sexualization is different coz that is about DESIRE ..." shows that you and I would disagree on what's important. Being always held as an object of PHYSICAL desire while all of one's other human attributes are devalued is something that hurts women and kids and you don't seem to understand that at all. You think it's a compliment dontya.

As to the ads, as important and interesting as those things are, I just haven't kept up with TV. so I don't know anything about the snapping thing (got a link? ).

For many years I've been opposed to any emails, jokes etc that denigrate men. I know many women do it and in my experience they do not identify themselves as feminists. That's within my private domain - where I decide where to exert my opinion and little bit of influence on matters that effect men. However, how can I be an authority on how you define yourselves as a whole? Nobody will know better than you guys what sort of impact you're experiencing and I am ready to follow your lead on that.

A male coworker showed me the pinky parody and he thinks both ads are funny. He is concerned about road safety though.

Also, the ad company for pinky is male run and owned I think isn't it? At least a bloke stood up for the award. They did some sort of consultation with young men to obtain their views and gotta thumbs up (apparently). The RTA paused for about 2 years to consider the impact on men - which seems pretty courteous. Are men really preoccupied with the size of their penis or is that a myth? Is it right to exploit their sensitivity about penis size (if such sensitivity exists) to save their lives ?

It's up to you to define yourself.

I quite like the 'pinky' ad, and I loved the spoof of it.

The ad doesn't denigrate men, rather it ridicules young hoons who behave in a manner that endangers everybody else. By implying that these idiots are pencil dicks who compensate for their physical inadequacy by driving dangerously in order to impress their mates and women, the ad conveys the message that real men don't behave that way.

I had occasion recently to deploy the pinky at a young fool who came roaring down a suburban Brisbane street recently, to great effect. He deployed another finger in response, but he obviously got the message. My kids thought it was really funny.

CJ,

'By implying that these idiots are pencil dicks who compensate for their physical inadequacy by driving dangerously in by driving dangerously in order to impress their mates and women, the ad conveys the message that real men don't behave that way.'

Yes, and at the same time implies 'real men' have a big todger. Which is true I suppose. 'Real women' have large breasts don't they CJ? That's a message feminists would abhor, but pynchme doesn't think that message is a problem when men are involved.

Pynchme,

I'm coming round to your way of thinking. Just read an article about men's height, and how it's socially acceptable for a woman to say she'll only date tall men. But not so socially acceptable for a man to say he'll only date thin women; If a man says that, he's 'shallow', and responsible for women's body issues.
But a man cant change his height, and a woman can change her weight.

'both attributes (male height and women's fat) are used to control, value and class members of the opposite sex and the ridicule of both leads to similar self-esteem issues in their respective genders.'

I have a friend who is quite short, and he's the angriest man in the world, and I'm not the only one in the group who puts a lot of his emotional problems down to 'little man syndrome'.

Perhaps you are not an 'equity' feminist, but a lot of the feminist commentary I hear speaks of equality as women to be treated the same as men. Men and women are different of course. But if you're happy for inconsistencies like this, a lot of the bleating feminists do about having every little thing exactly the same for men and women is invalid.

BTW: How many men are going to complain about the advert, as by saying so they open themselves up to the accusation that they have a small todger.