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The Forum > Article Comments > Driven by indignation at injustice > Comments

Driven by indignation at injustice : Comments

By Julia Gillard, published 5/10/2009

Collective responsibility and democratic action are necessary to ensure people can develop themselves and excel.

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From the article “individual effort and personal responsibility are fundamentally important, I also believe that collective responsibility and democratic action are necessary to ensure people can develop themselves and excel in all kinds of ways”

Well that really says it. However, where does “individual effort” and “personal responsibility” stand in the context of “collective responsibility” and “democratic action”.

Imho:
“collective responsibility” and “democratic action” can be the products of “individual effort” and “personal responsibility”

But “collective responsibility” is often the excuse for a lack of personal responsibility
And
“Democratic action” never encouraged an ounce of “personal effort”.

All that is needed for people to “develop themselves and excel in all kinds of ways” is the freedom to be themselves and lets face it, the socialist swill like to “regulate” to ensure that such freedom is ham-strung and curtailed at every opportunity.

As the son of an English railway worker, all I can say is Julia’s diatribe in pursuit of the myth of “social justice”, back-dropped with images of coal miners and pit ponies, is a load of sentimental tish.
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 9:47:37 AM
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This Labor Government should finish what Paul Keating’s government started and abolish the States, as judicial entities. The States of Australia, are illegal and dishonest in the extreme. Every day they break the law, and every day they have thousands of Australians in prison, many for minor crimes. These prisoners have been sentenced illegally, by people who have made an art form of breaking the law.

Thirty years ago, the Australian Federal Police was created, in the same year the High Court was neutered. What sort of a country is it that allows point two five of one percent to break the law every day. A careful reading of the Australian Federal Police Act 1979 does not disclose any impediment to its doing the job Parliament created for it. Its Time, Julia time to let the Australian Federal Police loose.

The Australian economy needs a boost. The biggest boost it could be given is to let the Australian Federal Police do its job. Dave has a son who is a virtual prisoner of DOCS, all because there are no courts in Australia. If he was given free access to any court, a place where democracy is openly practiced, and twelve people are called upon to exercise judicial power, as fair just and impartial finders of fact, in accordance with the National Competition Policy enacted by Paul Keating’s government, Dave would have his day in court.

S 45 Trade Practices Act 1974 was applied to all State entities by Paul Keating’s government. It bans exclusion, so it must mandate inclusion, and including 12 ordinary civilians in a civil court, is the very essence of democracy. When the famous Tea Bagging case was decided recently CJ French, described what a court is. This should be sufficient to mobilize the Australian Federal Police to make sure every court in Australia complies from now on with the Constitution.

They say there is no gain without some pain, but these changes will be for the better, and forever mark the Labor Party as the party that restored justice, where none has been available.
Posted by Peter the Believer, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 12:02:00 PM
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Col the Troll, Sir Trollalot

Not this turgid garbage again, surely?

At least come up with something original for a change.
Posted by RobP, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 12:04:01 PM
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>>Well that really says it. However, where does “individual effort” and “personal responsibility” stand in the context of “collective responsibility” and “democratic action”.<<

They are opposites as you rightly point out - the active and passive of the situation.

>>...the socialist swill like to “regulate” to ensure that such freedom is ham-strung and curtailed at every opportunity.<<

That's only taking the negative - regulations also keep the actions of people balanced in a community context. In an imperfect world, it's absolutely essential that someone does it. Or are you going to just lap up the fruits of such efforts while bagging the people who are doing it, Col? I believe genuine effort, in whatever context it is undertaken, has spin-off benefits.

>>As the son of an English railway worker...<<

Cough, splutter, what? So it's not just Julia making epiphanies, now?

I prefer to take a more holistic view of the situation. What the world needs more of these days is balance. NOT more polarised views and diatribes such as your own.
Posted by RobP, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 12:46:27 PM
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dont feel too bad jul;ie..but hey i got a non banker question for ya

its about israel[of course]..you lked a deligatrion there recently[when kevi was doing the gee 20]..please advise what they instructed you to do about aid and comfort to terorists

se obama had a question recently[he ducked arround a bit...it wasnt a difficult question[only how many nuclear armed nations in the middle east...hinting at israels 400 nukes..despite not signing a cetain treaty..that iran has signed[and appears to be following to the letter

but anyhow the main point of the question has arisen in speculation..of the surity[of one trillion plus in yanki aid...isnt allowable to non signees of the nuklear poliferation treaty..that iran has to..despitye them having not one nuke[nor the capabvility of refdining thye needed purety of poisen for their non intended /not sought nuke

see jules how much aid we send this rogue nuclear armed/non nuke treaty/racist nation..imprisoning its native peopole like we imprison our own..have you read that un report...

thats systamised genocide..by the state..[a rogue nuclear armed state/with four germain porpoise subs...a faux uinvading/de facto...state..

that sees free govt money from your govt..go to a rouge terropr state...by their deeds will we know them[and bne known..no time for indignation regarding that nation

but ...how about us ..did we sign the same treaty?
...so what your indignmation going to do about it..are we giving govt aid and comnfort to racists with nukes now?
going to put any presure on israel?
who do you serve?
you know i love ya right?

just letting you know
your as helpless..as we goys/goyum...
who dont own/..run a lot of it..cause we didnt take the mark

stop playing their game..
it has a planned armogeddon..
and faulse messiah's...its almost biblical...
but we live in the bibblical end times...

armogeddon aint so bad if you know you tried to stop it happening...not just followed the party line...to what end

your pulling the strings
not them
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 4:00:06 PM
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I'll try and get this on the right thread this time.

RobP
"However, it should only operate as a counterlever to the equal and opposite forces of individualism. In other words, one without the other is bad news as it leads to suffocation and death (in the case of excessive socialism) and atomisation of society (in the case of excessive individualism). What we want is a smooth - not lumpy or piecemeal - balance between the two."

I agree with you 100%.

The trouble with these debates is exactly as in your last post. The tendency for diatribe at the extremes of the "collective" and "individualistic" spectrums.

Individualism and entrepreneurship are necessary to foster innovation, new ideas and plain old hard work. But not at the expense of collective responsibilities to protect people like pensioners, many who have worked hard all their life, and ensure they are not living on or below the poverty line. And to ensure workers are not exploited in the pursuit of obscene profits.

I believe these two goals can fit together, with a balance of the right incentives and protections. It is not always easy particularly balancing vested interest groups from both the social and business sectors.

Probably we would never get it exactly right for the reason that human beings will never exactly agree on what is the right mix.
Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 4:14:39 PM
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