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The Forum > Article Comments > Not in the name of our Islam ... > Comments

Not in the name of our Islam ... : Comments

By Orhan Cicek, published 7/8/2009

Dark forces are using some ignorant and vulnerable Muslims for their own ends by brainwashing them with propaganda.

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I love it. Our resident OLO Islamophobes are forever demanding that moderate Muslims speak out against Islamic extremism, but any time one does - as in this very reasonable article - they get jumped on.

It seems to me that the last thing some people here want is for Muslims to integrate into Australian society. Indeed, they'd much rather all Muslims would go somewhere else, regardless of how reasonable, tolerant and civic-minded they are.

We need more Australian Muslims like Orhan Cicek to speak out, and we need to show respect when they do. Respect is a two-way street, and there is no hope for social harmony without it.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 7 August 2009 8:10:01 PM
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The mounting evidence of terrorism committed by Islamists all over the world shows conclusively that "moderate Muslims" are not truly Muslims. The real Muslims are the Talibans, or in Nigeria, the 'Boko Haram 'group. These groups are inspired by the Quran. They are related because the Quran inspires these groups to kill and maim.

Muslims who realise the real nature of Islam have left the faith and most of them are atheists.

The ex-Muslims have started website like 'Islam Watch' http://www.islam-watch.org/iw-new/index.php and 'Faith freedom international' http://www.faithfreedom.org/

If you desire to find out about true Islam from an ex-Muslim, Shabana Muhammad. A free e-book is available for download.

An Introduction to Real Islam
by Shabana Muhammad

"The life manual of Islam, the Quran, is a document of exclusion, hatred and violence that shapes the Muslims’ thinking and behavior. This stone-age document is optimally suited for people of stunted development. People who prefer to follow than to think for themselves, to hate than to love, and to seek death rather than to celebrate life.

Sadly, Muslims themselves are the ones who are most victimized by Islam. They have inherited this viral psychological disease of hate and violence; they live by it, and transmit it to their children as well as to receptive others."

http://islam-watch.org/Shabana/RealIslam/Chapter1.htm
Posted by Philip Tang, Friday, 7 August 2009 11:22:34 PM
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I agree with CJ Morgan that this is an encouraging article, for its embracing of Muslim integration into Australian society and recognition of the need for "all of us need to gather around the table of universal ethics and morals".

If Australian Muslims in general thought like that and mean it, I wouldn’t need to be Islamophobic.

In the Jewish Torah, the book of Leviticus sets out a bloodthirsty, Bronze-Age legal code. Nearly all Jews today regard Leviticus (and similar strictures in other books) as products of their time and cultural context, NOT to be read absolutely literally as God's immutable law for all time.

Orhan Cicek appears to read the Koran in the same way. Unfortunately, his interpretation is not winning the battle around the world.

Pakistan - whose tolerant Sufi tradition is described in Ed Husain's The Islamist: Why joined radical Islam in Britain, what I saw there and why I left - shot its brains out under Zia. Somalia is a cesspit. Saudi Arabia is the home of racism and cruelty and its petrodollars fund the dissemination of the King Fahd "authorized version" of the Koran with all the footnotes arguing for offensive jihad. Free copies from plenty of Australian mosques.

I have read the whole of the Koran and am bewildered at how an intelligent person can deduce from it that

1. it is the inerrant, perfect word of God - considering the number of errors of fact, chronology and IMPORT in it, by comparison with those original ideas it took from the Jewish Torah, and also the amount of repetition and pure banality in it;

2. it is about peace and forbearance - considering that the tolerant suras (like "There should be no compulsion in religion") are ABROGATED by the later verses of the sword;

3. it is about love and respect for all human life - when it is full of so many horrible, prurient, descriptions of the torments of hellfire, and makes Paradise a brothel for murderers.

As revealed in the Koran, Allah is a dalek, not a loving father.
Posted by Glorfindel, Saturday, 8 August 2009 12:14:08 AM
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This is the 1,203,987th time since 9/11 that a jounalist or Sheik has assured us that Muslim terrorists are not Muslims.
Posted by TR, Saturday, 8 August 2009 9:49:39 AM
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TR,

LOL, well put.

Let's look at the "respect" issue that CJ MORGAN raises.

Cicek may demand that I respect his right to believe what he wants and, short of actual, EXPLICIT, incitement to violence, to say what he wants. I do.

As CJ MORGAN points out, respect is a "two-way street". That means Cicek has to respect my right to say my piece even if he finds my words offensive.

Cicek may not demand that I respect his actual beliefs and I don't. Neither, so far as I am aware, does CJ MORGAN.

HOW REPRESENTATIVE ARE CICEK'S VIEWS?

The title of Cickek's article is "Not in the name of OUR Islam ..." (Capitalisation added) This prompts a question:

To what extent is "Cicek's Islam" representative of mainstream Islam anyway?

Here is a clue. Cicek quotes Fetullah Gulen. Fetullah Gulen hails from the Sufi tradition within Islam. In fact he authored a three volume book, "Key concepts in the practice of Sufism". See:

http://www.fethullahgulen.org/gulens-works/sufism-2.html

For the most part neither Sunni nor Shia Muslims consider Sufis to be true Muslims. It is thus reasonable to suspect that "Cicek's Islam" is NOT part of mainstream Sunni or Shia Islam.

What is more there is some question as to whether Gulen's views are actually reflective of Sufism.

At best therefore "Cicek's Islam" represents a minority sect, albeit a sizeable one, within Islam. In reality he may represent a minority within that minority.

In other words, Cicek is NOT a MAINSTREAM Muslim scholar condemning terrorism.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Saturday, 8 August 2009 10:29:11 AM
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hmm. so "respect is a two-way street" apparently means only that cicek must respect others' right to be offensive and obtuse.

well done, OLO. a fine show of tolerance and consideration. i particularly enjoyed the christians' contributions, decrying the absurdity of the koran, while trumpeting the clear wisdom of their own fantasies. "loving father"? yes, in an occasionally psychopathic sort of way.
Posted by bushbasher, Saturday, 8 August 2009 12:12:43 PM
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