#gazzaboy

Your post fails to explain that concurrently with the issue of the Balfour Declaration calling for the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, promises were given by France and Great Britain of self determination for those Arabs also freed from 400 years of Ottoman occupation and control in the remaining areas of the Ottoman Empire. These promises subsequently translated into the creation of 21 sovereign Arab states.

Self determination for both Jews and Arabs was virtually a simultaneous event - although Jews had to wait until 1948 for their self determination to eventuate.

The territorial allocation made to the Arabs for self determination was more than one hundred times greater than the territorial allocation made to the Jews - three quarters of which was whittled away subsequently to create the Palestinian Arab state of Jordan in 1946.

In terms of the allocation of resources - the vast oil reserves that came under Arab control provided and continues to provide an enormous source of wealth to those lucky enough to have it within their borders.

Whilst the Balfour Declaration was a statement of intent by the British Government it had no force in international law until its incorporation by the League of Nations into the Mandate conferred on Great Britain by unananimous vote of all the League's member nations.

It should be noted that both the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate made no reference to the non- Jewish communities having any political rights in Palestine - only civil and religious rights that were not to be prejudiced.

One can argue that these rights were and are still being prejudiced but in the context of the current unresolved 120 years old conflict between the Arabs and the Jews I believe Israel's non-Jewish communities already enjoy far greater civil and religious freedoms than are available to non-Jewish communities in the 21 existing Arab states. Certainly as Israeli citizens they also possess equal political rights with the rest of Israel's citizens.

If peace ever comes to Israel and it can apply its financial resources for peaceful purposes the position must improve.

David

haven't you noticed nobody is listening to your propaganda anymore.

# Keith

"haven't you noticed nobody is listening to your propaganda anymore."

That's your take Keith but maybe they are still listening and cannot find any fault with the following facts as I have presented them.

1. Jordan and Egypt are the two successor states to the Mandate for Palestine currently exercising sovereignty over 94% of former Palestine.

It is my belief that the only possible solution to ending the territorial claims by both Jews and Arabs to the remaining 6% (the West Bank and Gaza) is by redrawing the boundaries between Egypt,Jordan and Israel in direct trilateral negotiations so as to allocate sovereignty of the West Bank and Gaza between those three sovereign states.

2. The idea that a new Arab state (where none has ever existed before) can be created between Israel, Egypt and Jordan in the West Bank and Gaza has been pursued since 1993 without success and will in my opinion prove to be unachievable unless the Arabs moderate their view particularly in relation to
(i) demanding 100% of the West Bank
(ii)insisting on millions of Arabs being allowed to emigrate to Israel

Surely I am allowed to express my opinion without the vilification and insults that you and others seem to rejoice in under the cover of anonymity most times. Obviously you don't think so.

Rest assured whilst anyone misrepresents the facts I will be more than happy to correct them - as I have had to do with you on many occasions and no doubt will do so in the future.

Can you imagine what would happen if two soccer teams played against each other with different sets of rules. There would be mayhem - much as is experienced when people argue among themselves based on facts that are not first agreed between the disputants.

There may well be facts (as distinct from opinions) that cannot be agreed on - and these need to be identified to see if common ground can be reached. I am more than happy to engage in that process if necessary.

David you are a Zionist pretending to be fair and rational. What a joke. You actually believe a Supreme Being gave you and your people title to a scrap of land. Thank goodness the West and Christianity abandoned those sorts of ideas ... Christianity at about the time of Christ's sermon on the mount when Christ himself rejected the teachings of the Hebrew Priests and Hebrew Book and the West over nearly 2000 years after much thought, investigation and debate which included an enlightenment and reformation.

The point of view you represent and promote stinks and it isn't really appropriate for you to try to ram it down we liberal democrats throats in this century and especially while taking advantage of our liberal democrat society.

Go spout it to those who think Zionism fair and to those it confronts daily in Palestine. You'll find acceptance there, won't you?

# Keith

Your comment:
"You actually believe a Supreme Being gave you and your people title to a scrap of land. Thank goodness the West and Christianity abandoned those sorts of ideas"
shows how little you know and understand about the nature of the Middle East conflict.

The West and Christianity for your information were instrumental in the formulation and introduction of the League of Nations Mandate in 1922 that called for the "reconstitution of the Jewish National Home in Palestine". The member countries of the League of Nations voted unanimously in favour of the creation of the Mandate.

Please note Keith the operative word used was "reconstitution"

The West and Christianity were also instrumental in ensuring the rights granted to the Jewish people under the Mandate were preserved when the League of Nations was wound up in 1945. This was done by inserting Article 80 in the United Nations Charter to ensure the provisions of the Mandate were going to be fulfilled notwithstanding the demise of the League of Nations.

Your further following comment is very strange:
"The point of view you represent and promote stinks and it isn't really appropriate for you to try to ram it down we liberal democrats throats in this century and especially while taking advantage of our liberal democrat society."

I thought liberal democrats and liberal democratic societies believed in the freedom of speech and the right of every citizen to express their opinions freely and fearlessly. Am I wrong in that presumption?

Why don't you think about how a Palestinian being evicted from his home in the West Bank thinks about his freedoms under Jewish Israeli occupation.

David until you accept the behaviour of your mates in Israel is quite the opposite of everything we Liberal Democrats believe in you cannot expect us to swallow your propaganda drivel. Express all you want but to us the actions of your mates and your refusal to denounce Zionism say way more than any weasel words you use to try to justify the Jewish Israeli progrom against all Palestinians.

David the tide of opinion is turning against Jewish Israel. The more you try to justify, excuse or obscure their disgraceful behaviour the more you highlight it.

Keep it up, you are giving the Palestinian cause great help