"Given that it is now public knowledge that the interviews featured in the film are misleading and often wrong on many counts...", then there is no reason why intelligent people should not see the film and make their own decisions about it.

If we banned everything on TV that was misleading we would be left with Bananas in Pyjamas and the Test Card.

A big part of the media is the art of artistic liscense or more correctly 'Sophistry'.

The phrase 'Stolen Generation' was I beleive first coined as an emotive attempt to stop any real examination of the actual facts, surrounding the failed attempt to try and intregrate the children of Australias aboringal poplution into the predominate western culture.

Sophistry relies on appealing the a persons biases and prejudices and is emotive rather than factual.

The makers of this documentary will be hoping that this is also the case for their film, to make reputations and money.

There was a case exposed by Melaine Phillips where the news media published a story shown on film where a young palestine boy is seen cowering behind his father who is hiding behing a barrel. The film cuts to black and the voice over says that the boy was shot by Israelie soldiers.

Melaine Phillips exposes the story as a hoax, it was staged for the camera and the boy did not die at that time.
melainephillips.com

Film is a powerful medium, I can remeber feeling very angry towards the Jewish soldiers who it appeared murdered an innocent child. Now I feel angry about being manipulated and take in by a false story.

Interesting post on the documentary here, the comments help to flesh out the dispute: http://newmatilda.com/2009/06/26/slave-story

I don't know enough about the background to be able to make a judgment, but I'm not prepared to take the documentary on face value. However I note in the by-line that "Kamal Fadel is the Polisario Representative to Australia", so clearly he wouldn't be interested in anything that cast the Polisario in a poor light.

JamesH you're welcome to read Melanie Phillips if you wish, but someone who believes that the Palestinian "cause amounts to Holocaust denial as a national project" http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=480 doesn't rate much notice in my view. Still, thanks for the off-topic rant, it was quite entertaining.

Human Rights Watch followed up on the allegations of slavery and basically found them proven. Not "Gone with the Wind" style slavery, mind you, but slavery nonetheless. People are owned and inherited with the worst aspect being that owners can and do bar women slaves from marrying which in those parts of the world is about as egregious as it gets.

From that report..."Responding to questions about slavery, the Polisario has acknowledged the survival,“to a limited extent, of certain practices related to antiquated thinking” and said it was “determined to combat and eradicate them whenever they emerge and no
matter what shape they take.” We [HRW] welcome this statement and urge the Polisario to be vigilant in pursuing this objective."

The report is here - http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/wsahara1208web.pdf

yeah and while were at it lets ban al gores puff piece

and the appolo moon landing that never happend

or the 911 stuff..[or the kennedy film..we know osweld didnt do it he was a patsy]...im sure star-wars is a fiction...how about the diary of anne frank..or fiddler on the roof or them jesus films...

when we starting the book..[sorry film].. burning?
there is a lot of fiction/film needs burning..out there

by the way..when does the melbourne DOCUMENTRY festival open?
..[or is a film festival?]...dont matter..lets burn all them lies anyhow...you still got your KKK uniform

hell stuff it...[lets ban all fiction films
.sounds a good idea...

but..how come were starting with the darkies..as usual

lets start with the other..puff-pieces first..
this one time ,...eh?

shame we burnt that cross..with that last mal gibson spin peace

Good to see that some commentators here support free speech and trust people to use their own judgement about the films that they see.

The issues raised by the Polisario's represenative in Australia, Mr Kamal Fadel, have been discussed at length in other forums and are becoming a tired old subject.

What has come out of these discussions is that there is ample evidence of slavery in North Africa, including in the Saharawi refugee camps. This is documented by the UNHCR and others, including Kevin Bale; and is consistent with what the film portrays.

The film also tells the story of how the Polisario detained the film makers and tried to confiscate the film once they were told (probably by a white Arab slave owner) that black people were being interviewed about their experiences of slavery.

The full extent of slavery in Saharawi camps is unknown and it seems the Polisario would rather the wider world didn't know about it; which could explain why Kamal's been trying so hard to suppress the film and discredit the film makers.

While Kamal's role as Polisario representative sounds credible, the entity Kamal represents has no official status in Australia i.e. Australia does not recognise the Saharawi Republic.

I've been told that the film is currently going through a further process of scrutiny as to its legal status and the veracity of the translation; following numerous allegations of fraud by Kamal and other Polisario supporters.

It will be interesting to see whether the relevant authorities accept Kamal's complaints as valid.

Whether or no, Kamal could have his work cut for some time to come, given that the film makers have been invited to screen at other film festivals here and overseas.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/film/reel-drama-more-fiction-than-fact-or-lost-in-translation/2009/07/12/1247337022664.html


July 13, 2009

Reel drama more fiction than fact or lost in translation?

Questions persist over the veracity of a slavery film, writes Louise Schwartzkoff.

THE disputed documentary Stolen is full of mistranslations and incorrect subtitles, a translator who worked on the film, Oumar Sy, says.

The Bondi filmmakers, Violeta Ayala and Dan Fallshaw, claim slavery exists in Western Saharan refugee camps.

Controversy surrounded a screening of the film at last month's Sydney Film Festival, when one of the main subjects, Faitim Salam, left the refugees camps at Tindouf in Algeria to protest against the documentary's claims.

Ayala and Fallshaw stood by the film, saying it had been verified by three separate translators including Sy, who works as a Hassaniya Arabic to English translator for the United States Immigration Court.

Sy went through the film with the documentary makers in February, pointing out several mistakes in their subtitles.

He said Ayala and Fallshaw wrote down his corrections and promised to alter the subtitles. They arranged to meet for a screening of the final cut, but cancelled the appointment.

"They told me they would send a copy of the film for me to check, but they didn't," Sy says from New York. "They didn't respect their commitment to me. I was surprised and disappointed."

He saw the final version of the film for the first time last week and was shocked at its inaccuracy. "There is still a lot of work to do on the film," he says. "The translation I put on paper was correct. I went through [the film] minute by minute, but a lot of the mistakes have not been changed."

In one scene Salam's mother and sister appear to confirm that she is a slave to her white foster mother. More recent translations show they are discussing Ayala, who they say has misunderstood the family relationships.

Another problem was that some of the film's dialogue was in a local dialect that Sy could not understand. "If you don't live locally, you cannot understand what they say," he says...

hey yaddass you finally decided to post with your id again..
havnt seen you here since 2007...when you posted 4 or 5 posts about morroco...whats that 5 posts now..[in two years...lol]

couldnt be bothered reading it..but sounds like much the same distortions your pedling arround again now eh...mate realise what a film is..ie fiction..al gores film is full of fiction...but you didnt bother correcting them lies

mate globally slavery is a huge issue...people need to know about...your not saying you,..your saying someone else..[who may or may not have been threatend..[or misquoted by some racist slavery nutter]..not wanting light shone on the issue

one needs wonder why your posting with your rarely used id...no doudt part of a racist..dis-info group..going by your 5 other posts..

your into slavery as well..[how you feel about eugenics..?..or child stealing...cant wait to see what your 6 th post will be about..to see if there is a pattern developing

Yeah, can't people see that Kamal's article is a complete beat-up? I'm amazed that the SMH published it; and that Online Opinion has published this stuff here as well.

I've been reading some of the other blogs and couldn't count how many accusations were put over this film. None of them appear to make any sense to me. The filmmakers are accused of paying the characters if that is the case, the translations shouldn't be spot on?

The main character came to the premier to denounce the film, and she showed her passport at the Q/A to prove her freedom. Her passport was issued only 10 days before arriving in Australia. By the way, her flight was paid by the Polisario. Why was she protesting before even seen the film?

The Polisario representative keeps quoting the HRW Report as his prove, but the report concludes that vestiges of slavery that affect the black minority exist in the camps and more research needs to be done in the subject. mmmmm?

The translator issue, in the filmmakers press release they note that the first time they heard about his concerns, was on an e-mail copied to the representatives of the Polisario. MMMMMMMMMMM?

'Mr. Fadel adds “we call on the Melbourne Film Festival to reconsider the screening of the film until its translation is independently verified by a native speaker of Hassania from Western Sahara.'
mmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM? Perhaps he would like to verify the translations himself?

'Fadel says the case against the film's veracity is mounting.' Who is mounting the case against Stolen's veracity?

THERE IS A BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

LETTER SENT TO VIOLETA AND DAN, DIRECTORS OF STOLEN FROM THE UN:

“Dear both of you,

I understood that despite my written request to you for my formal clearance to use my voice or face in your documentary in the Tindouf camps you went ahead without my clearance, which I formally want to protest about. The release form you gave me for my signature is still with me...

I strongly protest about the way you manipulated my one hour (or longer) interview in your film and the short compilation of sentences (in 2 minutes) of what I said.

As you will recall and recorded I assume, I stated clearly from the very beginning and on several occasions throughout the interview that never any case of slavery has been brought to the attention of UNHCR (which obviously you did not like and made you very aggressive creating a very stressful interview situation, at least Violeta, not Dan). I also stated: IF there would have been any cases about that practice in the camps being brought to the attention of UNHCR we WOULD have brought it to the attention of the police forces in the camps as an abuse of human rights, but as this never happened, there was no need for it.

While you were continuing focussing on slavery practices in the camps only, I explained to you that can not be an issue to the camps only, but it’s an issue to be seen in a regional, traditional and cultural practice which will take long time to completely eradicate. This was the only moment I mentioned the camps as, per se, they are part of the sub-region. Again, you manipulated theses statements in the most abusive way and took them out of their context for your own purposes.

I am ready to clarify and correct this to whom ever is asking me.

Ursula.
Ursula S.Aboubacar
Deputy Director
Bureau for Middle East and North Africa”

Fay, I'm wondering at the purpose of posting Ursula's letter. Is it a defense of the Polisario cause? Does it support of the Polisario's denial of slavery? Or, is it intended to discredit the film makers?

It shows that Ursula S.Aboubacar is careful how she minces her words. She refers to slavery existing in Tindouf, while seeking to minimise the issue, by dismissing it as a traditional cultural practice in the wider sub-region.

From what Ursula says, the persistence of slavery in Tindouf is old news to her, however it would be alarming news to most Australians. Like myself, people in Australia are interested to know that someone has made a film on this subject; and many would want to inform themselves by seeing the film.

Ursula's letter provides one side of a story. In the interests of natural justice the film makers side also needs to be heard. It didn't take long to turn up a link to a brief transcript posted on the Internet late last month, of a verbatim report from the interview Ursula refers to in her letter. It is here:

http://newmatilda.com/media/UNStolen.pdf

The transcript indicates that the film makers had gained the impression that in said interview with Ursuala, Ursula was paying lip service to the issue of slavery and was seeking to minimise the problem. It is obvious that Ursula neither owns the problem nor does she identify any plans for addressing it despite being asked repeatedly about this.

Ursula's response suggests that addressing human rights abuses of refugees is not the role of the UNHCR (United Nations High Commission on Refugees); which may have come as a surprise to the film makers, just as it has come as a surprise to me, given that the UNHCR website says:

The protection of 34.4 million uprooted or stateless people is the core mandate of UNHCR.

In future I will look more carefully at reports like the one below, which refers to the UN as corrupt, unco-operative and ineffective; and which appears to be from a reputable source:

http://media.www.thetriangle.org/media/storage/paper689/news/2004/10/08/EdOp/United.Nations.Corrupt.Uncooperative.Ineffective-747393.shtm

I do not see any manipulation in this transcript. I have seen an old cut of the film and I remember Mrs Aboubacar, talking a lot more about slavery in the camps. I think the filmmakers have done the UNHCR a favour on the final film.

Below is an excerpt of the transcript of the UN interview, taken from the New Matilda.

Interview with Ursula Aboubacar - Deputy Director, UNHCR Bureau for Middle East & North Africa as appears in the film Stolen.

Interview took place in December 2007 at UNHCR headquarters in Geneva.

Present in the interview: Violeta Ayala, Ursula Aboubacar and Dan Fallshaw.

Ursula – You bring your contribution by alerting and making the documentary which I think is one step in the right direction.

V – In article four of the UN declaration of human rights, it says that no one shall be held in slavery or servitude, slavery and the slave trade shall be forbidden in all their forms.

Ursula – These practices exist not only in the camps but also in the camps as they exist in the surrounding and I can tell you whenever there is a report being made.

V – What’s slavery for the UN, for UNHCR?

Ursula – It’s an abuse of human rights, and we will immediately, it’s our job, if we are aware about it to combat it.

Dan – What are you going to do?

Ursula – What do you mean what are we going to do? I just said this is our daily work, when we are... For example when we are in the camp and someone brings it to our attention we bring it to the police officers.

Dan – UN police officers or POLISARIO police officers?

Ursula – POLISARIO police, we don’t have any UN police officers. What I want to tell you, it’s a cultural issue which is existing. This is not something that you can abolish from one day to another, this is something which needs a long time and it has to come from the people...

if you doudt the truth of slavery
[your certainly going to doudt this one]

Alex Jones & Paul Joseph Watson: Obama Czar’s Nightmarish Sterilization Plan
http://www.prisonplanet.com/alex-jones-paul-joseph-watson-obama-czars-nightmarish-sterilization-plan.html

The Alex Jones Channel
Tuesday, July 14, 2009

Alongside John P. Holdrens advocacy for a global planetary regime to enforce forced abortion, government `seizure of children born out of wedlock, and mandatory bodily implants designed to prevent pregnancy, Obamas top advisor also called for, “Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods.”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/liberal-website-claims-source-of-holdren-controversy-is-radical-right-wing.html

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Monday, July 13, 2009

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/07/13/fox_nation_cites_radical_right_wing_source_to_paint_obama_science_advisor_as_radical.php

Liberal website News Hounds attempts to giggle and guffaw at the controversy of Obama’s top science advisor John P. Holdren’s plans to mass sterilize the population and carry out forced abortions by claiming that the entire story is an invention of the “radical right wing,” when in fact it comes straight from Holdren’s own 1977 book Ecoscience.

If you visit our original article,
http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-science-advisor-called-for-planetary-regime-to-enforce-totalitarian-population-control-measures.html

you will find screenshots of the book in question...Not Fox News,.Not Horowitz,..not the “radical right wing,”

Holdren’s own book,that he co-authored in 1977 ..you know,..the one he wrote...That is the source of the story...Get it?

Shocking proposals to mass sterilize the population by artificially medicating municipal water supplies, which were outlined by President Obama’s top science czar in his 1977 book Ecoscience, are already in effect as global sperm counts drop and gender-bending chemicals pollute our rivers and lakes.

As we highlighted on Saturday, alongside John P. Holdren’s advocacy for a global planetary regime to enforce forced abortion, government `seizure of children born out of wedlock, and mandatory bodily implants designed to prevent pregnancy, Obama’s top advisor also called for,”Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods.”

Holdren added that the sterilant must meet stiff requirements in that it must only affect humans and not livestock.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/water-supply-will-stay-poisoned-with-gender-bending-chemicals-due-to-carbon-footprint-of-filtering-systems.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-science-czars-plan-to-sterilize-population-through-water-supply-already-happening.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-population-reduction-agenda-for-dummies.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1092638/Evolution-threat-gender-bending-chemicals-turning-males-females.html

From Newmatilda: http://newmatilda.com/2009/06/26/slave-story

I happened to be in the Sydney Film Festival audience on the night of the screening of Stolen and remained for the Q&A... But I came out of it feeling disturbed and uneasy. I had seen something that purported in the narration and subtitles to be an uncovering of widespread slavery in a particular camp in the Western Sahara. I had seen nothing much that supported this... It was all in the spoken words in the film. And these, as the weeks have gone on, have come more and more into question, it seems.

The 7.30 Report showed, in comparative subtitles, that there were real doubts about their translation. I then read a strong piece by Yvette Andrews, in which she quotes at length a woman named Ursula Aboubacar, a UNHCR representative in the area who insists that her words were used selectively in the film and to support a case for slavery in the camps that she and the other UNHCR workers had not seen any evidence of in many years working there... I do have a memory of Violeta Ayala saying either then or later that the translations of the subtitles had been certified and verified by a translator in New York. This translator proves to be a man named Oumar Sy who was quoted in the Herald on Monday July 13. According to the writer of the piece, Louise Schwartzkoff, Oumar Sy has now said that ‘Stolen is full of mistranslations and incorrect subtitles’ and there are quotes in the piece to support his contentions...

However one big question remains for me, which is that the repeated assertion by Violeta Ayala and Dan Fallshaw that there are 20,000 slaves in the camp is surely not supported by the filmmakers’ observations of a single family over a few weeks alone and by the visual evidence — or lack of it — we saw in the film. Or is that really all there is? I think it is time that we knew this.

Martin, the portrayal of slavery in the film as practised in North Africa is different from what we grew up believing slavery to be.

The form of slavery perpetrated by white Arabs upon black Africans is not the slave trade variety that we know of from history. It is a hereditary class system that has existed for 100s of years. White families own slaves and pass them down; many developing close relationships like an extended family. This information is readily available.

Slaves, being slaves, don't have the same rights as their owners; not unlike what it used to be for women in Australia who were chattels of men 50 or 100 years ago, and still to some extent.

Slavery in North Africa is a current concern for human rights organisations. There are many reports that confirm that this form of slavery is still practised widely.

In Mauritania the number has been quoted as 600,000 or 20 percent of the population. It is an entrenched problem that has defied attempts to eradicate it for the last 100 years. Twenty percent of 125,000 is 25,000 so (alarming as it may sound) the 20,000 quoted by the film makers is not far fetched. Some of these people may have been "freed" from slavery if not from refugee status. How many and how successfully is anyone's guess given the experiences in Mauritania. There is evidence that by no means all Saharawi slaves have been freed. This is an issue that the Polisario wish to hide.

Nothing in the real world is black and white; more like many shades of grey and whatever the social or economic role a person might fill, there have always been people who have treated other human beings with compassion.

Daido may love Fetim and treat her well and Fetim may love her back; just as abused children love their parents. However well Daido treats Fetim and whether or not slavery is a traditional cultural practice, to deny Fetim and people like her freedom of speech and freedom of movement is a human rights violation.

JanF,

Do you have anything to say about what the translator, Oumar Sy, said as reported in Sydney Morning Herald. It seems he said that there are lots of inacuracies in the subtitles of the film. This is a very serious issue. Any comments?

From the Empire Online
http://www.empireonline.com.au/news/story.asp?NID=1000005134

They then state: "Ourmar Sy in New York only verified the film's translations, he did not translate the film. If he had concerns, there were many opportunities to clarify these for us at the time. We asked him if he was sure all the translations were correct, he signed a letter to say this. He had a further opportunity to raise this with us when we sent him the final version of the film, with subtitles. He did no such thing... The first we heard of his concerns he copied the e-mail to the New York and Australian representatives of the Polisario. Why?"
FISHY, FISHY, SUPER FISHY.

Re: the genuineness of commentaries being posted here and elsewhere (Unleashed, Variety, Links, Online Opinion, New Matilda). The content and style suggests that Fay is a pseudonym for the same person who has posted as: Mark, Martin, Rick, Observer, Lawrence, Lawrence A, Petra, Miriam, Catherine and possibly others.

There's a consistent theme: providing Kamal Fadel's press releases and related publications; and repeating anti-Stolen and pro-Polisario statements rather than participating in open discussion. Some of these posts appear to have benefited from the assistance of people who are proficient in English.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/timors-link-to-a-saharan-struggle-20090721…

Timor’s link to a Saharan struggle

Jose Ramos-Horta

July 22, 2009

As I visit Australia again, to attend this week’s opening of the Melbourne International Film Festival, I have been confronted by the outcry over the film Stolen, which will screen at the festival and which represents, in microcosm, the importance of truth in the struggle for justice. The film, which makes claims of widespread slavery in the Western Saharan refugee camps, represents many of the ugly realities of this central dynamic. It is a scenario I know only too well.

I have followed closely the question of Western Sahara for decades. In our years of struggle for independence, strong friendship and solidarity grew between the Timorese and the Saharawis. I have met many Saharawis and visited the Saharawi refugee camps and liberated areas twice. I did not see any form of slavery in those camps. Rather, what I know of the Saharawis is that they are enlightened and committed to their cause of freedom.

The situation of Western Sahara is perhaps not well known to Australians. For East Timorese, there are ties which make a mutual understanding easier to find. Both East Timor and Western Sahara were colonised by Iberian powers - Portugal and Spain, respectively; both have been identified by the United Nations as being ready for decolonisation; both were invaded, post-European withdrawal, by regional powers in 1975; both peoples have been subjected to widespread human rights abuses; and both have been caught up in global political trends not of their making.
…
Stolen emerges as a stark example of the implications of this reality. It is easy to cast societies seen through the lens of bigotry as backward and to manufacture spurious storylines to suit a certain need when the politics of the moment encourage it.

Jose Ramos-Horta is President of East Timor.

Read the whole article in The Age :

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/timors-link-to-a-saharan-struggle-20090…

It is a strategic move by Kamal to trade on the presumed although unproven commonalities between Western Sahara and East Timor. This has enabled Kamal to enlist a credible voice.

However Hose Ramos Horta is sticking out his neck and risking his own credibility by making public statements about a film that he has not seen. Hose is incorrect: the film makes no claim as to widespread slavery.

The statement has failed to accurately address what the film is about. The film subtly portrays real and complex issues arising from the long time Berber practice of slavery and in no way was intended to reflect adversely on the Polisario cause.

It is obvious though that as members of the Berber ruling class who have traditionally suppressed the hereditary slave class, the film has touched a tender nerve with the Polisario.

The Polisario began attacking the film in public statements before they had seen the film. Now they've put Hose Ramos Horta up to doing this very same thing.

The only inkling that slavery is widespread arose when the film makers were asked on the 7.30 Report: how many people they felt might be affected by slavery. They identified 20,000 as the likely affected population. This is well founded in research on the practice of slavery amongst Berber cultural groups in North Africa.

Evidence of slavery in the Polisario camps is unlikely to come out however for as long as this oppressive Polisario controls the region because the Polisario closely control access to information.

This is evidenced in how the Polisario evicted the film makers and sought to confiscate the film; and is evidenced in how the Polisario are seeking to suppress and discredit the film.

Who ever the Polisario enlist to their campaign against the film, truth speaks more loudly. And the truth also speaks out as to how unscrupulously the Polisario have conducted themselves in an ill conceived propaganda campaign to suppress a film and silence Australian film makers

Jose Ramos-Horta on Stolen film during an event held in Melbourne on 23 July 2009:

“I have to confess I have not seen the film but have read about all about it for many months - transcripts and articles. I have to say I was in the camps and I am not naïve - I am always a very curious person… I am always curious about human beings and at the Sahara camp I went visiting people in tents and talked with so many people.

I do not know the number of international NGOs that over the years have operated in the camps – numerous – far more than ever in East Timor. The number of European parliamentarians visiting the camps and internationally, the Red Cross, always had free access to the Saharawi camps. UNHCR – all areas that you can think of, all these years – no one ever heard of it.

Because this is the first time I heard of it in the camps. It is totally an absurdity and made up, I guarantee you.

... The Polisario is one of the most genuine liberation movements and very humanitarian. I never heard of brainwashing by the Polisario. You don’t see much propaganda material by the Polisario.

It is not an authoritarian, centrally controlled movement - very liberal, very open. I know from my feelings - I am not stupid, not a genius - but I know when someone is deceiving me. I know how to ask questions and I would never, never turn a blind eye if I knew of any abuses in the Saharawi camps because I would be an accomplice by supporting a movement that I knew was committing these barbarities so it is totally unheard of.

My experience being there – the experience of the UNCR, International Red Cross, numerous NGOs, European parliamentarians, US Congressmen – was that no one was ever told about this.”

Hose Ramos Horta needs to look further than the end of his nose. No one who visits the camps and walks around looking at daily life in the camps would necessarily "see" embedded slavery; nor the discrimination of white Berbers against black Saharawi.

It is not possible for anyone to "see" that Fetim was taken from her mother at the age of 3 because she and her mother were slaves owned by white Berbers; just as discrimination and other abusive practices are not necessarily highly visible.

Fetim would need to tell someone that she was taken from her mother at the age of three for anyone to "see" something like that. She told the film makers this and now because Fetim has made a retraction post hoc at the behest of the Polisario, the Polisario and their supporters are saying that the film makers made it up.

I suppose next thing Hose will be coming out with a media statement saying that he doesn't believe in climate change because he can't see that by looking at the end of his nose either.

Wal, You're wrong.

When did Fetim ever say that she was taken away from her mother at the age of 3. It is not in the film! She has never ever said that.

The reason Fetim was separated from her mother is due to the invasion of Western Sahara by Morocco and Mauritania in 1975.

Deido, Fetim's adoptive mother was separated from her own baby at the same time too.

It is not approriate to write in such a language when addressing a hero and a Nobel Laureate who devoted all of his life to fight for his people's freedom.

When you're addressing the issues of the film or anything related to it please provide details and facts to back your arguments.

I saw the film and I'm sure that's where I saw that; would have no other possible source for that sort of info. Perhaps you were too busy seething or trying to find fault and you missed it.

As to Hose Ramos Horta, until recently I had regarded him as a saint like figure who could do or say no wrong. While some of what he says still makes sense to me, I have revised my opinion. I now see him as flawed a human being as anyone else, and my comment reflects this.

I see that others have also revised their opinions of Hose Ramos Horta.

Wal,

I don’t think Dr. Ramos-Horta would care about your position since you can’t even spell his name correctly!

If you’re so sure about your claim can you indicate which scene in the film you’re talking about?

Fay

If Jose is such a humanitarian I doubt he'll hold a little mispelling against me.

As to which scene said that Fetim was taken from her mother because they were slaves, I'm sorry I don't have a copy I can refer to. I thought it was fairly early on though.

Wal,

Dr. Ramos-Horta is a man of peace and reconciliation. He has forgiven Indonesians who killed members of his own family and thousands of his people.

So I think he can forgive a mere blogger defending a useless film.

I thought you were sure of your allegations but now you're now claiming you don't have a copy of the film! I don't believe you. Such an avid defender of the film is likely to have a copy.

Just because I defend a film that I like and believe is worthwhile, is no indication that I'm so privileged as to own a personal copy of it.

Stolen hasn't been released on DVD YET. When it is I'll be sure to buy a copy.

Or maybe you've been thinking all this while that I'm one of the film makers or a close associate. Sorry, you're mistaken.

Wal,

I am sure the filmmakers can afford to send you a copy you’re a fan and a staunch defender of their film. Unless the film never gets released or the filmmakers found themselves bankrupt.

In any case when you get your treasured copy come back and let us know which scene you’re talking about.

I watched the film at the Sydney screening, it's an amazing film. I have never been on a screening like the Stolen one.
I have no doubt that this film will go very far despite the opposition of the dogmatic left whingers.
The Polisario representative keep saying that the filmmakers are accusing them of "widespread slavery" mmmmm?

I can't trust a liberation movement that allows and defends slavery...Mr Fadel doesn't appear to me to be black, he probably belongs to the masters...So what can we expect from him?

His family probably owns slaves and of course he needs to defend the practice.

What a strange statement by Fay. As if... I've been a fan of many films over the years and not once yet have the film makers noticed let alone sent me a complimentary copy of the film. Hilarious idea!

Andi, your logic is incredible, if someone is not black then they must have slaves! Are you black? do you have slaves?

What we can not is that the Stolen apologists rarely discuss the content of the film. They try to divert attention.

You say the film is amazing. Yes it is but for the wrong reasons. It is a hoax. It is full of lies and baseless allegations. All has been proven. The mistranslation, the manipulation the invented scenes...etc

Wal, don't try to hide your connection to the filmmakers!

"Dogmatic left whingers" - I like that. The shared delusional state of some people in the Socialist Alliance and similar extreme left groups - as evidenced in their numerous publications about the film, Stolen - is something to marvel at.

The dogmatism appears to be the result of a form of mutually reinforcing social behaviour brought about by everyone agreeing with everyone else and doing a lot of mutual back patting. No-one in these organisations seems to be concerned about knowing what's going on in the wider world outside of their little world.

I see though that Fay has disagreed with you Andi... Nice try; there could well be something in your idea about white Berbers still being slave owners.

Like you, I've been scratching my head and wondering hard, what is the logic behind the Polisario's representative, Kamal Fadels', very vocal opposition to the film, Stolen. It makes no sense.

The more that Kamal says against the film the more I inform myself about the issues and the more this crowd, the Polisario, are looking doubtful to me. I'd have known nothing about the Polisario if Kamal and his friends hadn't made such a fuss about the film.

There certainly is wisdom in that old adage about people living in glass houses not throwing stones. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out for Mr Fadel. If his employers are displeased with how he's handled the media spectacle here I reckon he'll have good reason to be on guard lest he mysteriously disappear.

Fay,
I am black and very proud to be. My parents are from Jamaica and I was born in the UK.

I found the film extremely compelling and there were so many black people in it talking about their experiences with regards to slavery.

It was clear that wasn't the slavery practised in the 18th or 19th century in the Americas or Europe. This is a lot more hidden, has developed in a different way but is as repressive and destructive of families as any other form of slavery.

This story was extremely painful to me because I am a descendant of slaves.

I speak Spanish so I could experience first hand the testimonies of the black people and see the pain in their faces. There were young girls expressing fear and anger to live in slavery.

The film is well crafted, interesting and really presents the situation in an unsentimental way.

Hey Andi, are you on FB? You'd probably turn up Stolen if you searched under Stolen on the Australian network; you might want to become a 'fan'. :-)

I think it's quite obvious that Andi is just another name for Wal who is probably one of the filmmakers or their family members such as JanF.

An ex-slave, Spanish speaking, Jamaican, born in the UK who happened to watch Stolen and love it!

This shows how desperate the Stolen apologists have become.

It seems to me that Fay rather is desperate to prove that Stolen has no supporters; just can't stand any indication that they do. From where I see it, it looks more like the person or persons posting repetitive propaganda and sly attacks on behalf of the Polisario are the real "trolls".

While I know myself who's being honest, for the wider public it will only be a matter of time before the truth comes out on that one.

No matter how cruel and nasty the Polisario trolls are towards the film makers and their supporters, this ugly behaviour just does their cause further harm. I have no problem with that.

Report on flaws in Stolen handed to Minister Garrett

The Federal Government will today be presented with a damning critique of the Australian film Stolen and asked to disassociate itself from the film.

The critique uncovers serious misleading and deceptive practice on the part of the film makers and, on this basis alone, the Australia Western Sahara Association said, the Commonwealth crediting should be removed before its MIFF screening tonight.

Lyn Allison, President of AWSA said “The credibility given by the Commonwealth crest to the false claims of widespread slavery in the Saharawi camps should be of great embarrassment to the Minister and Screen Australia.

“The film was funded as a documentary but turned out to be a fiction. Now the real story behind its production needs to be told.”

The critique, collated by AWSA, documents untruths and basic errors identified by independent translators, witnesses and individuals used in the film. It cites “…. questionable methods and unethical practices from pre- to post-production.”

The full critique is at: http://awsa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/critique_finalversion1.pdf

“Australia's standing as a trusted producer of documentary work is challenged by Stolen carrying the Government's seal of approval and its $300,000 of support.”

The critique details statement retractions, payments for false statements, a lack of release forms and standard interview permission documentation, manipulation of subjects, contradictory translations, fictitious scenes and questionable funding arrangements.

“AWSA offers this analysis of Stolen in defence of the dignity of the Saharawi people.”

“Unfortunately, Stolen does not help Australians understand or care about the plight of the Saharawis or their legitimate struggle for self-determination,” said Ms Allison.

For comment: Lyn Allison: 0407 691 512
For background: http://www.awsa.org.a

I'm surprised that Lyn Allison would put her name to such a "pastiche of misinformation".

Who in the world believes in politicians?

From Unleashed:

Slavery is in the mind, slavery of your behind.
It does not matter if this does not rhyme
I'm only writing it to pass the time.
Did the film makers commit a crime, they're lying and misleading creates suspicion
Were they on a mission?
For the slave it is not submission, coz they were paid a commission.
For the public it is momentary indecision
The truth will reveal itself in time, and reveal itself with great precision.
The disjunction created between arab and black
Is reminiscent of the crack attack
By the evangelical american christian pack
On a mission that is really wacked
Do not attempt to hack and translate
Let the experts do it and you'll be right mate
The film makers do only desecrate
The integrity of film making and then they berate
Their slaves, who they underestimate and bait
And now the film makers create slaves in turn
Slaves of themselves to money and fame, for which they yearn