Stormbay
I am not an apologist for Muslims or for anyone else. As an atheist I neither support nor decry any religious group. Someone like yourself who is a student of psychology would know about the fear of change or the fear of the unknown in relation to immigration.

Why shouldn't Muslims ask for a place of prayer at work? I once worked with a Christian man who would not work Saturdays due to his religious beliefs, his was one of the less mainstream versions. The workplace had no difficulty in accommodating his request.

I agree the government shouldn't pander to practices that go against the law and we have laws against making false disability claims, false insurance claims and bigamy. I agree these should not be tolerated but there are already laws governing those crimes. It is true that the government is remiss at times in enforcing the law.

When I worked in HR many years ago there were a couple of ethnic groups that we always had trouble with in relation to making false workers compensation claims - some so glaringly obvious it was a bit like watching a bad episode of Fawlty Towers. It was rife but those days are gone and ensuing generations have not followed in those footsteps.

The burqa is for me a symbol of oppression but after a lot of thought, it becomes a choice between one form of oppression (burqa) and another - when governments start enforcing and legislating what we are able to wear.

“Why shouldn't Muslims ask for a place of prayer at work?”

Why should they, when it disrupts business and demands special exclusive facilities in a clearly non religious business. I know for a fact they refuse to use facilities government and business have set up for religious people to conduct their prayers, they demand exclusive facilities. I've been involved as a consultant in a number of mediations in this regard over the years and find muslim's very selfish and deviate people. Muslims like most monotheistic religious people, are pathological liars, if it will get them what they want. Abrahamic cultists all believe they have the right to lie to non believers, as they don't matter and you'll find for muslim's, this goes double. Otherwise they'd fit into our way of life and not bring their cultural religious primitiveness with them to disrupt our country, which clearly they are doing, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

A religious person not wanting to work on a particular day is very different to demanding many times during working hours to be able to at will, trot of to their prayer room for whatever period they desire and no one is allowed in, not even the owner of the business. This is discrimination and prejudice on a major scale, yet the authorities support it with zeal. Those having non working religious days, are no imposition on the business as they keep it away, unlike muslims.

I've had one experience with a burqa clad woman, who needed a psychological assessment for a pension and since, have refused to treat any muslim after the abuse I and the staff received from her husband and other moronic relatives. I refused to fill their forms in as she wouldn't speak or answer me and I couldn't see her alone. To be honest, I always squirm when treating religious people, they are so mentally fractured, all you can do is have them prescribed anti depressants, as they refuse real help.

Personally, I find the prospect of the odd burqa-clad Muslim distinctly less disturbing than the attitudes expressed by stormbay, who claims to be some kind of psychological counsellor.

One hopes that s/he is sufficiently professional to separate their own idiosyncratic ideas about religion, ideology and morality from their interactions with clients, most of whom I imagine would experience their subjectivities very differently from the appallingly prejudiced sentiments that stormbay expresses here.

I'm an atheist who doesn't subscribe to any particular ideology, but I have found that many of them are useful as starting points for developing my own philosophies on 'life, the universe and everything', which are always works-in-progress.

Stormbay
So after having one bad experience with one Muslim family you refuse to treat any Muslims. In this case the person/family were perhaps attempting to rort the system, but one fundamentalist (if indeed that was the case) does not represent a whole religion. Like Christians, Muslims are not a homogenous group.

It would not be a far stretch to imagine this woman suffered a mental illness given the vulnerability of her situation and the extremism of her family. Many refugees have a mental illness and require treatment, usually as a result of their awful experiences in their homeland or in detention camps. However I understand that you could not sign the papers without having the opportunity to speak with the woman concerned.

Would your attitude have been the same if you had treated one difficult Christian or an atheist and their families?

I hope many OLOers managed to catch the interview with Malalai Joya on the 7.30 Report last night. What a delight. The only woman in a male dominated parliament who stood up to speak against the Taliban, the Northern Alliance, the drug lords and members of AlQaeda. And who was banned from the Afghani parliament after speaking out about corruption, extremism,discrimination against women and the need for democracy.

She is secular Muslim who believes in democracy and freedom of belief. Her election is evidence that many Muslims want to move on from the inequities in a male dominated culture.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2009/s2612972.htm

I apologise for not qualifying my statements and giving people the wrong impression.

I refuse to treat any muslim under those conditions, the same as other fundamentalist groups making unreasonable demands, limiting help. When I say religious people, I refer to those devout enough to firmly believe their belief and approach to life, must follow strict dictates to achieve any goal, no matter the outcome. It doesn't mean all people who believe in god, or any other ism, otherwise there'd be very few to treat.

It's the same with fractured mentalities, they come in every shape and form. In my experience real believers of any description are unable to separate themselves from their belief, long enough to see it from another viewpoint, as an objective observer. Once they do that, they begin to understand their situation and why it's effecting them as it is. They may not change the situation, but understand it from another way. When that happens, they're healing themselves with their own guided investigations. If you know your situation, understand it to your rational ability, with support you're capable of working it out to your satisfaction. I don't choose who I work with, it would defeat the purpose as I'm sort of retired and work for NGO welfare groups now, many religious.

When I talk of religion, I'm referring to the nutters of all ideologies, not just monotheists unless I refer to them specifically. I'd love to throw them all out of the country, but see no problem with secular religious people at all, they're no different to me. As long as we separate religion from the state completely, most problems would be solved and we'd all be Australians and not have some with their heads stuck in some psychopathic fantasy land and making people nervous. Negative fundamentalist statements and demands, which is what the Burqa is, are harmful to the harmony of all people, not just non muslim's.

The practices of some monotheist Muslims is not going to change and I can see where Stormbay is coming from when the whole family are trying to direct proceedings when a caring professional is trying to help a person in need.
Yes, there are many immigrants from overseas who need psychological help dealing with their ordeals. However, if one is seeking an honest assessment it is hardly able to be given if a group of fanatically over zealous people are all taking part.
On the positive side, I believe wholeheartedly that their children will work themselves out of this male dominant ideology.
Bugger the burqa though, who would know if there was a make or female under a tent of heavy black fabric.
Polititians in this country are too fearful of making a rules regarding this type of religious zeal. They are only able to make more rules for us longstanding, long suffering, Aussies. Why is this?