"When I asked are we trusting the musings of a brute monkey, .."

dan, you don't have a choice. you guys think you can wave a magic God wand, and somehow these questions disappear. they don't. you are monkeys too, musing in the same manner. your musings about your God have no different basis, and less explanatory power, than our non-god musings.

"Are you presuming that science supports evolution? Many scientists these days do not."

utter crap. there is no substantive scientific challenge to evolution. and if there were, scientists would be fascinated, not threatened. what there is is absurd non-scientific special pleading nonsense from threatened religious types.

dan, i don't know if there MUST be a conflict between science and religion. but dishonest crap like yours pretty much ensures there will be.

if your god is so threatened by evolution then it is a piss poor god. i suggest you find a new one.

busche basher i was raised into science asurd by my father who read the book three times there was nothing to be learned in reading it..so delved deeply into the sciences

science is supposed to be based on the ability to prove its results predicably..[ie it must have stated faulsifiables..theories that if disproved invalidate the theory..evolution dont..evolution is not a science..[its a theory]..by carfull sudy it reveals its full of holes

were it a science..it would state failure to produce life from non life invalidates the theory..life emerged from some convoluted soup[and mate..ammino acids arnt life]...carefull study reveals life comes from life..consistantly

just as carfull study..has NEVER found and any species that has changed genus..ever..in fact study has found species consistantly wobble arround within the species mean..[..see darwins finches were all yet finches..[ring species seagulls are all seagulls]..fruitflies/fruitflies

we have fossils of..presumed..transitional;s..[very few..less than ten,..none of them actually proved to be the missing link..not one..

see logic deems we should find many[or at least one..but not one mising link..and[that speaks for itself]...lol

i studied the deceptions..inherant in evolution for 20 years..[and despite real science[mendelism etc]..the factualitry of evolution never morphes..[evolves..lol]..into a valid science

we get sold by buzz-words..like natural-selection..[hardly science][or surivival of the fittest..[within the species..but..species/micro evolution..isnt genus/macri evolution...

science is so clever..yet has never created even its own cell..[nor even a simple cell-membrane]..it has not even made..that first living life form..let alone evolved it..because its a theory..sold to kids

[like santa clause or the easter bunny..[in them-selves cloaks to hide the birth and death of jesus..the most amazing man ever born of woman..[but definitivly..[in his own words NOT GOD]

just as much as evolution is not a science

Fractelle,
I’ve noticed that you’ve applied your energies towards the Bogie Man of ‘fundamentalism’, whatever that means. (New thread, same old words.)

You’ve used the word fundamentalist twice in a short space. However, could you define that word, and who it is specifically that you are talking about?

In my experience, those who use this word don’t have much of an idea in their own head of what they mean by it. It is used mainly as a derogatory term to put down someone that they disagree with, maybe trying to associate them with Sharia.

Bushbasher,
You are free to call yourself a monkey, if you choose. If I thought you were a monkey, I wouldn’t bother attempting any rational engagement.

This article by Cheleda laments why many in the West do not accept evolution. Despite evolutionists having the monopoly within the universities and scientific institutions for generations, they can’t seem to convince the general populace that it’s true.

The problem is that the evidence just isn’t there. It’s about as bereft as your last post.

When those attempting to engage evolutionists in debate are met with name calling and slander, such as ‘dishonest’, or with four letter words such as ‘piss poor’, it only confirms in the minds of many that that side of the debate has little to offer.

From a reaction like that of your last post, I wonder who it is that is feeling threatened. Wouldn’t it be the ones who stand to lose their grip on the status quo?

You use the word ‘fascinated’. Many educated people today are fascinated by creationist arguments. And it seems increasingly so.

"You are free to call yourself a monkey, if you choose. If I thought you were a monkey, I wouldn’t bother attempting any rational engagement."

however monkeyish we may be, your musings are no different from mine. belief in a god is no magic wand which transforms or validates your musings. belief in god is no "basis for reason" which grants superiority to your thinking.

"The problem is that the evidence just isn’t there."

the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

"Many educated people today are fascinated by creationist arguments."

but not many informed scientists. once again, there is no substantive scientific challenge to evolution.

the real question is, why are so many intelligent and educated people so susceptible to the god-inspired trashing of a solid scientific discipline? another question is, why is it particularly the christian god which inspires this anti-intellectual lunacy?

"name calling and slander, such as ‘dishonest’"

you are intellectually dishonest. you are monkey(ish).

"From a reaction like that of your last post, I wonder who it is that is feeling threatened."

not threatened. disgusted.

DS M

I define religious fundamentalism as those who take the words in their bible, koran or torah quite literally.

Such as the parables of Adam and Eve, burning bushes, parting of oceans, building of arks, walking on water and so on as literally true.

People who see their religion more as a philosophical guide, usually do not block themselves from learning about the world/universe around them but see it all as part of their god's wonderful creation. These people are not fundamentalists.

fracture..<<..i define religious fundamentalism as those who take the words in their bible,koran or torah quite literally...>>fundimentally i take all words serious..fundimentally..[law is about taking words seriously]..so lawyers are fundimentalists?..yeah i agrrree

<<Such as the parables..as literally true...People who see their religion more as a philosophical guide,>>...oh dear philophist's..[who love debating the neuance and meaning inherant in words..[and the lawyers],and no doudt the spelling nutters...seem's these fun-dim.mental-ists are keeping high company...lol

<<..usually do not block themselves..[others?]..from learning about the world/universe around them..but see it all as part of their god's wonderful creation.>>..ah if only that were true..[lawyers are the scum of the earth...had they studied religion they would practice love of god/love of neighbour

<<These people are not fundamentalists.>>i agree...[except i named them..you did not]...

so i might have missed it.philosophers are fun-dim-mentalists?...yeah i suppose they appear pretty dim..to the dim-witts that cant follow thier precice logic

i suppose its bad form to try to deconstruct..then not try to re-con-struct...thus i see more a fundimentalist is an ignorant..who by knowing generalities..[or limited specifics...then generalises this tiny speciality into hate/bile..

or..those who constract a delusion based on a percieved suppirority..over others..they deem less schooled..because they dont interpritate..[their selectivre point]..the same way they do

i have noted many believing evolution/fall into this fundimentalism[same with those claiming a carbon-tax,..cure-all..due to...lol ..climate/change..lol..media seems rife with fun..demon..tall-poppy-isms

[so do blogs and certain topics..attract these fun-demon-mental-ists,..con-structing their own-ism's..

aint that..fun-di-men-tally clear,..

or need we further di-sect the basics..?...purely for enter-taint-meant..pure-pose.