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The Forum > Article Comments > Religion and science: need there be a clash? > Comments

Religion and science: need there be a clash? : Comments

By Stephen Cheleda, published 19/5/2009

A fresh look at the definition of a human being would go a long way towards refocusing our worth, and our intentions.

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Stephen, I am no scientist but I do understand the tendency of many scientific communities to do their work to the exclusion of religious interpretation. "Intelligent design" is a recent example of the corrosive impact of religious dogma upon rational thought. Religion does not permit itself to be opened to the same interrogative scrutiny as a scientific hypothesis, and for good reason...

You say "Yet, in spite of all the scientific evidence, and the determined expositions of evolutionary biologists, belief in creation persists in western cultures. How can this be explained?"

I believe the answer is a simple one. Rational thought coexists with irrational superstitution because no 2 humans are identicial, some are prone to being more skeptical of so-called "truths" put before them than are others.

And thank goodness we have the former because the latter do seem to need some help in accepting that their dogma is not what a secular culture (western or otherwise) needs in these times.
Posted by bitey, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 10:33:07 AM
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There need not be a clash if religious people keep their beliefs to themselves and not try to force others to follow their dogma. If you dont believe in abortion then dont have one. If you dont believe in euthenasia then dont do it. If you dont believe in pre marital sex then dont do it. If you want to pray in church and worship your god then go right ahead. JUST DONT TRY TO FORCE IT ON ME!
Posted by mikk, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 11:00:29 AM
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Mikk, why are you trying to force your beliefs on me?
Posted by Grey, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 11:09:12 AM
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Grey:
Heís not.

* * *

Need there be a clash between religion and science? Yes, because the two kinds of belief systems are mutually contradictory, and are saying inconsistent things about reality and what is true.

With science, if the facts donít fit the theory, you keep the facts and throw out the theory. With religion, if the facts donít fit the theory, you keep the theory and throw out the facts.

Creationist belief seems to be part of manís default-mode mechanism for explaining how things come into existence. An interesting example from the Bible is the explanation that where languages come from, is that they were all created. That has been disproved by the evolution of new languages since it was written.

I once read about a traditional Aborigine referring to a particular tree and saying it had been there since the Dreamtime; whereas we think of geology, biology and history as being on vastly different time-scales.

With the progress of factual knowledge, man seems to substitute a naturalistic explanation based on evidence for the prior default-mode explanation based on assumption and supernatural creationism.

Manís superstitious proclivity has not disappeared. It has gone from awe of groves and streams; to reverencing spirits; to worshipping gods; to one big God; to one big god with an earthly corporation to administer his worldly concerns; until in secular times manís superstitious proclivities become vested in the omnipotent corporation itself Ė the State.

The State is assumed to be all-knowing, all-moral, and all-capable; even while the fact is that the State is a monopoly of theft and crime. The State is assumed, creationist-wise, to be the source of all social order, the basis of all morality, and to be necessary for productive and economical behaviour to exist; even while it legalises theft and violence; actively dispenses privilege; wastes hard-earned wealth on a grand scale; spreads moral and economic incoherence; sends people on unnecessary wars; and enforces the submission, obedience and tribute of whole populations.

This is nothing but superstitious belief originating in modern-day creationist assumptions and disproved by economic science.
Posted by Wing Ah Ling, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 11:21:21 AM
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<<The way..we understand/things..guides our beliefs,and in turn,..'it'..determines..'our'..actions.>>..quite correct..earlier you said..re personality cults..

[i call darwinism,and the other evolutionary prophets..holding religiously to evolution..to be as much personalitie cultists..with religiously held beliefs..the SAME as any of religion's faulse god-heads]

<<If our perception is incomplete,our actions will be flawed>>..egsactly..the personalities make claims clearly designed to decieve..

[take your OWN quote]..<<''..The great apes may be our most recent evolutionary ancestors,..but even then'',..probably..lol..''millions of generations,(as opposed to millions of years)..have passed by since the..'divergence'in'evolution'.>>..60 to 80 THOUSAND years..[ie the first homo erectus..ie non ape..is hardly millions..lol

<<if we draw the wrong conclusions from our actions,..our perception will remain flawed>>..egsactly...so lets see science says big-bang--religion says in the beginning..[we both agree to a beginning..lol

we both have names..[religion has paul/jesus/mahamoud,..science has darwin/dorkins/et'al

bible has an winged/angel become snake...evolution has a snake that grows wings..religion has adam..[science claims lucy..[yet lucy is a proven fraud]

<<The third,and probably the most important unease caused by those who do not fully support evolution are the currently held views of a human being...>>..ok lets look at..'human'..[the only animal capable of making writen/words..math..science..mythology..theology

the[only]..'animal'..that thought of making a pot/a basket/a wheel/a tent..thought of value/units of exchange/..was able to concieve a greater god..[an unseeable/eternal/imortal/good god]

the list of divergances from ape..[while geneticlly only 2 percent..yet enumerate 2000 plus..2000[succesfull]..evolution's/mutations..[dispite mutations largly..[statisicly]mutations..are detromental..to the mutants survival

[all the trillions of fruit-fly mutations..have not made EVEN one non-fruitfly..[ie..no proof of evolution out of species..[into new genus]

life comes from life..[religion says..'god'..breathed life into clay[science/that..'somehow'..amino-acid's..became..'life'..lol..[science has..never created actual/life,..not even made a single/living cell membrane..[yet dare speculate life arose from nothing..lol]

despite mutating..intra species..science has NEVER recorded a species changing genus..[all mutation is intra species]..genus into new genus is not valid..[has NEVER been recorded],..and science has never observed it nor recorded it...

NOR done it..lol..isnt true science able to replicate?..[yet sciences FAULSE GODS/guru's..DARE to speculate that species/evolve from their genus..into other genus..lol]

evolution is EVERY BIT as much faith/basedas religion..[the evolving/de-volving fanatics..just dont note their own fanaticism]..hence it is taught to gullable/children..and expaned by reporters...lol
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 11:27:01 AM
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According to official Western academia, as regards Christianity,
religion and science came together under St Thomas Aquinas, who is said to have lifted Christianity out of the Dark Ages by accepting Hellenistic Reasoning from Arab scholars.

Further, while also as a Doctor of Learning Aquinas began what are now our Western universities, the Arabs later did accept Islam, some researchers say, as far as science is concerned, sadly dipping themselves into their own Dark Ages.

Regards, BB, WA.
Posted by bushbred, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 11:34:06 AM
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