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The same old story: torture and accountability : Comments
By Binoy Kampmark, published 1/5/2009The Obama administration is somewhat dazed by revelations of torture of US detainees in prisons from Bagram airbase to Guantánamo.
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Posted by csteele, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 10:28:22 PM
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Obama must throw some people in jail over this. Only time and the death we people who watched America do this will completely remove the stain this has cast on America's moral authority. I personally will never forget.
Jailing some might go some way to atoning for those sins, but that is not why it must be done. Obama must make it clear that no matter how much moral fashions change, outrages committed at the hight of a bubble when they might seem acceptable will be punished when the bubble bursts. People must realise the insanity of the moment doesn't excuse their personal involvement, any more than driving drunk excuses the man slaughter charge. Without the clear threat of near certain sanctions, the crimes will be so much worse when Americans next vote in a man of such "moral clarity", as I think the far religious right called him at the time. Posted by rstuart, Sunday, 10 May 2009 11:15:18 AM
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<“I am old enough as an Australian to still be stunned and shocked by an America that tortures.”>
If you look at history, you may find the USA has always been at the forefront of torture and ignoring the Geneva convention. You only need to go back to Vietnam and WW2 to see a lot of evidence of barbarity and torture, they continue it with their saturation bombing and kill first approach to anything in their way. After all, they are a gun totting religious inspired culture, when you combine god and weapons, you only have one result, torturous debauchery. Obama is no different to any of them, they all follow the same philosophy and Obama is using some of the same people and ideologists as bush, so we will see just the same outcome. All those they've jailed so far, have all been from the bottom of the heap, the real criminals continue leading from afar. Don't jail the soldiers, jail their officers, bureaucrats and politicians who order and condone these atrocities Posted by stormbay, Sunday, 10 May 2009 12:27:24 PM
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What a load of cobblers.
What the US has been accused of hardly constitutes torture. "Torture" is now being used as a catch-all word to describe any technique which deviates from the normal civilian criminal prosecution process. This is war! How can a country prosecute a war when it can't even interrogate captured enemies to extract information necessary to prevent more casualties. Obama was keen to release "torture" details to use against the previous administration but he has been less than keen to release the accompanying details on how those actions helped avert further terrorist acts. His revelations have been condemned by 6 former CIA directors and have made it increasingly difficult to effectively prosecute the war against terrorism. Oh, that's right, I forgot. It's not a war against terrorism, it's Janet Napolitano's war against "man-made disasters" (her new euphemism!). The real terrorists are not those in Guantanamo Bay, etc. They're all those right wingers that oppose Democrat "policy" as outlined in the DHS report issued by Janet Napolitano. You know, the real threat: war veterans, pro-lifers, anti-SSM advocates, etc. Don't you know that the Department of Homeland Security has banned the use of the word terrorists when describing Islamists but uses the word freely when warning against right wing extremists? http://wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf It would be laughable if it weren't so unutterably stupid. Obama, Napolitano, et al are now running the show and we should all be very worried. You people should read more because it's people like you who voted for these incompetents. Posted by KMB, Sunday, 10 May 2009 12:40:11 PM
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And a load of cobblers back to you KGB-with bells on.
The USA. HAS used torture, and does. Personally, I don't believe any country has clean hands on this issue, but this so-called superpower; this democracy; this paragon of virtue, wrote the book on hypocrisy and double standards. In your pursuance of your Right Wing ideology, you ignore what is right in front of your face. And no,-I don't see Obama as a wonderful faultless leader- but by comparison-yes! Bush and his regime were hideous. Posted by Ginx, Sunday, 10 May 2009 1:14:20 PM
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You know you're a progressive, left-leaning liberal when you're outraged that Americans can pour water over the face of a terrorist to try and stop more terrorist attacks but you have no problems at all with a mother choosing to have her 34 week old foetus dismembered and extracted from her body because she really wants that BMW.
Posted by KMB, Sunday, 10 May 2009 2:57:57 PM
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What saddens me the most is the thought that my children will grow up with a deeper cynicism of the world than I was afforded. America, the land of the free, welcoming of ‘huddled masses’, defenders of human rights, democracy and rule of law, all flagged by that amazing constitution. Combine that with a willingness and power to prosecute these ‘inalienable’ ideals and despite all its faults it was a country with many examples for teaching those values. One didn’t have to swallow all the hype to still want a deeper understanding of that nation for ones children.
But now America tortures.
Anyone who saw the recent documentary about the murder of American nun Sister Dorothy Stang by men paid by ranchers would have seen a Brazilian defence attorney who included in his address a litany of American excesses. The invasion of Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, rendition, Abu Grab, torture etc were all brought up to show how violence, murder and torture was in the “American DNA”.
What would have been laughable pre-Bush now cut close enough to the bone that it resonated, despite the absurdity of the argument that nun herself was a murderer.
If Obama really has any sense of wanting to return his country to its former standing in world opinion he must open the wound and excise the cancer that continues to metastasize, further eroding the ability of America to advocate for human rights in other countries.
A definitive move by him now, in the honeymoon period of his presidency, against those who authorised these human rights abuses is desperately needed, not only by his countrymen and the world’s citizenry, but also by parents everywhere.