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The Forum > Article Comments > The impossibility of atheism II > Comments

The impossibility of atheism II : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 27/2/2009

Are we to damn Christianity because cruel things were perpetrated in its name of which Christ would have been ashamed?

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annina
I share your interest in the inner self and how we all as humans can be better.

If Christ is the path you have chosen to find that inner self then that is great. I'm all for people finding the path that suits them for whatever reason.

My objection is more to those who dictate to atheists or people of differing beliefs that their path is wrong or false in some way and that peace or inner tranquility, the inner self (or truth) cannot possibly be experienced other than via Christianity (or Islam, Hindu etal).

Although, people like me have been labelled as atheists, many like me, don't subscribe to the atheists groups either for the same reason ie. just another group telling people how they should think.

To each his own. I don't have a problem with people praying to their version of God, or Bhudda or who subscribe to paganism or kabbalah etc.

Just don't judge atheists within the confines of your own doctrines or beliefs as I won't judge you.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 1 March 2009 3:12:44 PM
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Well, we are at only 49 posts compared to AI's 298 posts. What happened to the momentum, you atheists? I can only say I found this the hardest of Peter's articles to follow. It seemed to make many unrelated claims that did not speak to Christians.

The article is called the impossibility of atheism, yet it seems to be defending Christianity. This is a curious web site which I may soon delete.

Peter, who do you think your audience is? Christians or atheists?
Posted by annina, Sunday, 1 March 2009 3:51:35 PM
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Maybe in a weird way Sells may be partly right. Maybe there are some people who have become confused and think that the nasty, vicious and despicable 'God' of Christianity is the only possible God. Maybe there are a few 'Atheists' who refuse to believe in God because they see the Christian version and refuse to believe that version. In that I am with them 100%. If it is sells or nothing I will take nothing.
But I remain agnostic. If there is a God it certainly isn't the Christian/Jewish/Islam version.
Annina, these articles are defending Christianity in the only way possible. Sells 'stays on message' about Christianity whilst appearing to be writing about atheists. A straight examination of Christianity would cause it to self destruct.
The inner self is another thing. One of my objections to religions is 'why is it necessary to build external constructions about an internal process?' As individuals with our own internal life why do religious organisations seek to supplant that inner life for an external fabrication?
Christians, atheists and all the other labels mean nothing. It is what is happening internally that matters. If there is a God I feel it has to do with an inner connection not external observance.
Posted by Daviy, Sunday, 1 March 2009 5:34:44 PM
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Daviy

Any faith based on 'internal processes' without 'external' manifestations would be a little pointless.

Jesus himself located the core of his teaching in the one 'Law' to "love your neighbour as yourself". This point is illustrated most clearly in the parable of the 'Good Samaritan". Given Jesus' explicit identification of this as the core of His message, all His teaching should be measured against this 'Golden Rule'. Jesus did not offer 'inner peace' but a 'Kingdom' in which justice prevailed. Jesus' own actions were thoroughly political and social, which is what led to His execution at the hands of the Romans.

If Christianity is to remain faithful to the teachings of its founder then it cannot but be social and political. That, of course, has its dangers and the Church has certainly been a less than perfect vehicle of Gods's grace.

While much your criticism of 'religion' is justified, you seem not to appreciate the nature of 'Christianity' if you think Jesus message was about 'internal processes'. The Church envisaged by Jesus is politically active and concerns itself absolutely with the external circumstances of real people. Yes, the Church is getting plenty of things wrong and would do well to attend to issues of justice rather than to conventional moralising. The Church has also failed in many ways in its portrayal of God as an 'object' that can be 'observed' and manipulated. It is little wonder that atheism has grown in reaction to the Church's poor teaching. Better no God than the capricious and inscrutable despot that is the 'God of fundamentalism'.
Posted by waterboy, Sunday, 1 March 2009 9:29:21 PM
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We are seeing desperate debating tactics used here. Some are lumping Judaism, Islam and Christianity together, when they are totally separate from each other. Judaism and Islam are the first and last, one refuses to move into the modern world, and the other is an attempt to move back to the Old Testament, with a counter Prophet to Jesus Christ.

Others are taking small snippets out of the Holy Bible and failing to see the whole forest; Looking at one tree trunk, instead of the combination of all. In their totality the four Gospels, are a fabulous template for good government and that was promised way back in the Old Testament by the Prophet Isaiah, and in genesis by Jacob, when after being called Israel Man of God, he declared that the scepter of a Ruler shall not depart from the House of Judah, until Shiloh comes. Shiloh means he to whom it belongs, and is in Christian terms Jesus Christ.

Christianity is the fulfillment of a Godly Promise, that if the Gospels are followed, then the people will enjoy “good government”. One poster said how do I get Christianity from the Constitution. Every lawyer accepts that the three first chapters of the Constitution incorporate what they call the separation of powers, into the Constitution. Currently a Federal Court Judge is paid $6,000 a week. If that is not a bribe what is? The separation of powers comes straight out of the Gospel of John.

Way back in 1215, the English separated the power of church and State with the Magna Carta. No Priest could ever condemn a man to death, or order his property sequestrated unless 12 ordinary people concurred. The atheist Liberal Party changed that in 1966. Whether you are atheist or Christian, the Magna Carta was a guarantee of freedom. The creation of an atheist State priesthood, takes that from you. A proper understanding of the Gospels is essential to a complete education. Properly educated no Judge or Magistrate would sell his soul for thirty pieces of silver! If asked for a jury they would comply
Posted by Peter the Believer, Monday, 2 March 2009 4:40:02 AM
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I have noticed that many of the posters blame the God they deny for the worlds evils. It is incredible that mankind is so blind to the evil of his own heart. Religous people are among the worse and no more so than the secular humanist. Their dogmas sometimes dressed up in pseudo science is as hypocritical as that of the Catholic church in the dark ages. In fact many of their popes and high priests would fit in well with that system.

We have 'intelligent' comments like 'All babies are atheists'. Yes well all babies are also born ignorant. Thankfully the dumbest can see evidence of God as they get the smallest of knowledge.

'Christians are so stupid that they are killing millions of other
christians through starvation (overpopulation,contraceptive ban) and AIDS ( condom ban).' A perfect example of the gullible believing their high priests.
Posted by runner, Monday, 2 March 2009 7:11:32 AM
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