Don't know what we are getting at with an Atheism Mk2, but speaking as a historian, must say my true Christianity gradually disaappears after the Sermon on the Mount, which with its Blessed Are's seems to give us Spiritiual Reasoning much more than the Thou Shalts of both the Old and later New Testaments after the Crucifixion.

Further, the later intervention of Constantine in establishing a political future for the Christian Church makes any philosopher wonder how Christianty from then on could be so different from what is expressed in the Sermon on the Mount.

Certainly any historian could believe that the Wise Men said to have influenced the Boy Jesus especially in Egypt, were most likely Hellenist teachers from the Great Library of Alexandria.

And having to illegally make up the Donation of Constantine in allowing Christianity to support the murders allowed under colonialism, reckon it would have had the boy Jesus trembling, but most likely with plenty to say.

And please to remember that the above is no fairy story.

Cheers, BB, Buntine, WA.

Bushbred

Comparing the Greek version of the Sermon on the mount with the doctored Cristian version it is plain just how far the Christians have strayed form the true teachings of Jesus. They have turned people power and personal responsibiliy into however you could describe Sellicks twisted dogma.
The world could have been much richer for the philosophies of Jesus, but look what the Christians have done with it. Money, power, supression and genocide as a begining.

“While the humanists cherry pick the events that appal us all they ignore the social triumphs brought about by Christianity: the abolition of slavery, the care of the poor and the sick, the establishment of centres of learning in the great monasteries, the social justice movement in the 20th century.” – Sells

Dear Peter,

It is hardly cherry-picking. One can find examples of heinous Christian events (as you call) and list these events, decade by decade, from the fourth century into modern times.

On Abolition of Slavery: OT: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.” [Leviticus 25:44]. NT: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. [1 Peter 2:18]

Christian were heavily involved in Slavery between the eighth and nineteenth centuries. Commencing 711 CE, “the (Christians) began their reconquest of the peninsula by killing the Muslim population of towns. By the end of the eighth century captured women and children were made into slaves, as were some men. Execution began to be seen as a waste of resource. A prime purpose of Christian adventurers … was to find slaves” (Thomas).

Christian, George Washington owned slaves. But his sad involvement pales compared to Christian Spain and traders operating from Christian England.

Peter, the principal slave trade ended because, “the West Indies were in debt, there was a sugar surplus, and the saturated ‘old colonies’ did not want new slaves” (Thomas).

On the care of the poor and the sick: Of the Black Death. “In many towns cowardly priests themselves off (i.e., leaving town and going to church safe houses), leaving the performance of spiritual offices to (unidentified) regular clerics. [Horros, 1994]

Cont...

On centres of learning: Immediately after Nicaea, Christians destroyed not only pagan statues but major libraries too. “Art, philosophy, literature, the very psychology of Western man, all suffered by the victory of the bishops” (John Holland Smith).

Christians destroyed the Serapeum. ““Courageously, they [The Christians] gave battle to the statues until they had vanquished and robbed them. Their military tactics consisted of stealing without being seen. As they could not carry away the pavement because of the weight of the stones that could hardly be moved, when they had simultaneously overturned everything in sight, these great and valiant warriors, whose hands though rapacious, were not stained with blood, declared that they had triumphed over the gods. They gloried in their sacrilege and impiety.” [Eunapius of Sardis, in Turcan 1985].

Before Harvey, Miguel Serveto wrote to John Calvin asserting “blood circulated from right-side of the heart to light-side via the lungs (Gribbon). Bad move. Christian Calvinists burnt Serveto at the stake, because his teaching was anti-Trinitarian.

On the social justice movement: The Social justice movement finds some roots in Kant, whom held, that for life to make sense, people must be free to act morally and to be accountable in an after-life.Otherwise, who punishes Hilter? [who was a devout Christian]

Yes, the Church has tether in the social justice movement. Also, nineteenth century Catholicism and (left-wing) Political Economy are bed-fellows. That said, egalitarianism, civil law separate from canon law, freedom of thought & individualism are really the product of the Enlightenment and eighteen century French liberal thinkers, to Christianity. Independent, non-canonical interpretation of knowledge has consistently been fought by the Christian Church, from before Nicaea to after the “Monkey Trials”. Anti-libertarianism is evident in Pope Innocent II annulling the Magna Charta, because it was demeaning Church & Regal authority. Today, we have the Christians Churches covering-up for the pedaeophile clerics, thus, thwarting the tights of their victims.

In Sum: Christian-History is not History’s History.

Regards,

Oliver

benno wrote 'It's a circle that can't be squared: caring + knowing + power = action"...nice...but already breaking it down to pieces and reassembling to see if reforms same equation...and trying to fit 'fear_inaction'...but first a response for peter...

I read your articles and struggles to get your message across...basically 'religion is more faith than fact'...but dont seem to address the glaring obvious...the destruction in name of god/religion throughout history...so its coming out as snake-ointment merchant...elucidating its claimed virtues while skillfully avoiding its devastation...

so allow me to pose a question...if you chose to close your two eyes for 6months...what will be ur awareness of immediate environment then?...yep...all shapes and colours of objects around will no longer be known in its full extent/interaction to/around you...and in that situation you write an article about how your world is...hope you get what Im trying to say...

now if I may request something...take it on 'faith' that you have a 'third_eye'(eye that sees energy around you)exists but closed after ur childhood...open it...like when u were a child...

also take it on 'faith' that you have a 'soul' in u right now...'energize' and maintain it to awaken it from its dormancy and become active in each moment of action in your life...how?...little tricky it seems...the heart of its foundation is in the pelvis...it can spin anticlockwise/clockwise...anticlockwise to suppress and remove from consciouys...clockwise to energize and grow from pelvis out...and if I were you I will start turning everything that I can seem to energize clockwise till you start getting a hang of it...

then final request...write and an article in 6months after holding above said constantly...I for one would look forward...and see if you were able/obstructed by other 'energies' in or around...focused attack to stop by other peoplew...able to adapt and persevere...and its effects...primarily understanding/growth of god/spirituality...

sam

Pelican, you are correct to query my statement. I did not expess my thoughts well. I have been reading Karen Armstong, Ken Wilber, and Thomas Moore and trying to combine their exciting thoughts with those of Jung, "Christ exemplifies the archetype of the self."

Armstrong questions the effects of today's popular idols and sees them residing outside the self, undermining the human spirit by discouraging the inner hero and the inner journey, which is how I see atheism. Christ calls me inward, and upward. As my inner self, Christ, strengthens within, the need for rigid dogma falls away I do not need dogma for I am strenghtened by something far greater.

Oliver, spot on about slavery. Thank you.

And Fractlle, how well I know the different origins of Christ's message,especially Do Unto Others, but I was brought up Christian and it works well because it is well honed by time and continues to change; Prince of Light and Prince of Darkness should live in harmony within us all.