bushbasher,
I take your answer to my question as “yes“. Nevertheless I am glad there are many Christians, atheists and others, also on this forum, who use a civil and decent language even when expressing disagreement with other people’s views, positions or actions.

david f,
According to Wikipedia, there are 8 million (loyal to Rome) plus 5 million (“patriotic”) Catholics in China, and from the same source 14.0% of German Catholics (or about 4% of the total German population, i.e. 3.2. million ) attended mass on Sundays in 2006. One can assume that more or less all Catholics in China attend, or would like to, mass on Sundays.

CJ Morgan
Priestly celibacy has never been a dogma just a policy, and indeed there are married Catholic priests e.g. of the Byzantine rite (my step-grandfather was one). Well, I know dogma is not the only thing misunderstood by those who do not like the Catholic outlook.

relda,
We agree on many things, but on these matters we have to agree to disagree, otherwise it would mean you becoming a Catholic or I converting to a Protestant version of Christianity. I regret that comparing papal infallibility to High Court decisions did not help in making it more palatable, but as I said, this was not an easy concept to understand. And yes, I hope that a future Pope will find an interpretation of it that will allow him to write an Encyclical that will override Humanae Vitae and Dominus Iesus. (ctd)

(ctd) I do not necessarily defend the Pope only his authority (as I would defend that of the PM, even if I did not like everything he was saying or doing) and I did not understand what action I could/should take against rebellious priests.

I am also sorry if you think I am not a Catholic in good standing if I do not take literally everything coming from Vatican or this or that Archbishop. As you know, some people think we are not Christians in good standing if we do not take the bible literally. I am used to both accusations.

By “informed conscience“ of a lay Catholic, one means “having taken into account the official position of the Church“. In case of a priest there is an additional requirement of discipline. Of course, neither the Archbishop nor the Pope (nor you and I) can judge whether Father Kennedy sincerely followed his conscience - that must be left to a Higher Instance. His superiors can only judge whether or not he is disruptive. Now that I read more about him - including the above admission from a member of his congregation - I can only say that there are many Protestant ministers and Evangelical preachers (they also can comfort crowds) I have known or read about whose Christianity in words and in action I could understand better, and value higher, than that of him.

Nevertheless I think all Catholics should wish Father Kennedy all the luck (and God‘s blessings) in doing the work he has been doing following his conscience, however probably not in the name and under the auspices of the Catholic Church if he cannot accept its rules. Technically he might attain the status of those in the Brotherhood of st Pius X as far as his relation to the Church is concerned, and as sad as it sounds it might be left to secular courts to decide who owns and has the right to use St Mary‘s church.

Dear George,

I didn't disagree about the relative number of Catholics in China and Germany. I merely had the temerity to make a pun.

george, my answer to your question was not "yes": it was "i don't give a damn". once again, you might consider why.

your preaching is uncalled for. i've been civil and decent to you. i respect you. i don't respect bathersby or pell, and i don't respect an institution so dependent on authority, and so fueled by fear.

The original thesis was faulty in not including the other Churches .
A more real explanation would be found had they been included .
I am the product of the baffling bonding of the Orange and the Green .
All the Churches in Bendigo are washed up , heaps converted to homes , art studios etc . Our beautiful Cathedral odd funerals and weddings . While I love the Cathedral , in the back of my mind is a file , in this file is the knowledge that people were starving in Bendigo when it was built .
I often watch Songs of Phrase on the ABC , my kids think I have lost "it" . They don't know because they have never experienced "it", the beauty and pleasure of singing in church . My day of reckoning came reading either Time Magazine or National Geographic , Glaring out at me was a very young Kurdish mother , very distraught , sitting on a collapsed cardboard box in the snow beside her three small naked children wrapped in plastic , dead and looking out through half closed eyes at the promised land from the mountains between Turkey and Kurdistan . Where were the Gods that day .

I have been following this thread out of a mild curiosity as to how each side justifies itself.

I have yet to read anything that changes my original view. That if you trade as Woolworths, and receive all the benefits of the brand name, then you don't expect those benefits to continue if you decide to trade as Father Kennedy's Novelty Shop, however popular the store may be.

The Pope and his various representatives have a responsibility to protect the brand name against all forms of dilution, just as Woolworths will protect theirs.

Whether you think Woolworths is a good or bad store, or whether Catholicism is a good or bad form of religion, the principle seems to be pretty straightforward.

I'm a bit surprised it is at all controversial.