VK3AUU wrote: Father Kennedy's church is full because he has discarded all the superfluous trappings of the Catholic tradition to become a real practicing Christian.

As a non-Christian I am amused by the tendency of various branches of Christianity to consider other branches as not real Christians. Those who believe as I do are real. Others are not. Sounds like bigotry to me.

The quibbles get ever slighter, relda, but I really cannot let this pass.

>>The “...least objectionable traits of any brand of Christianity” really does bear direct contradiction to saying that you “have absolutely nothing at all against [it]”<<

Don't think so.

All of the brands have objectionable traits, in my view, ranging from the purblind evangelism of a Boaz to the Catholic prohibition on contraception in Africa. The fact that I identified a "least objectionable" trait does not in any way contradict my opinion of the product itself.

If I consider any product, it will have good and bad points. This car might be very luxurious but expensive to run, while that one may be economical but give me backache after a half-hour behind the wheel. Neither situation will change my view, however, that travelling around Sydney by car is the only feasible means to get the kids to sport of a weekend.

So it is quite admissible to be in favour of the product (car, religion), but rank the brands in an order of "least objectionable traits".

This would still hold true if I did not hold a driving licence at all, and was unable to judge the merits of the different cars as a driver.

I would still be justified in holding a view that, say, a Hummer is a more objectionable mode of inner-city transport than a Prius.

All of which is surprisingly relevant to this thread.

Far too much time is spent on brand competition within the religion market, and far too little on expanding the market segment itself.

In fact, spats like this over competing territories can cause consumers to reconsider their decision to invest in the product in the first place.

Although on the other hand, a broader awareness of what is available at Father Kennedy's Novelty Shop - as opposed to the mega-brand Woolworths that was there before - might actually expand the overall volume of trade.

Incidentaly, nwick, your Soofworth analogy fails when you describe them as selling rotten food. I don't believe quality is the issue here, only presentation.

In my previous post I said "Father Kennedy's church is full because he has discarded all the superfluous trappings of the Catholic tradition to become a real practicing Christian."

Possibly I should have said "Father Kennedy's church is full because he has discarded all the superfluous trappings of the Catholic tradition to become a really practising Christian." That is not to say that it is not possible for the Catholic Church itself to also better practise Christianity, but it seems to me that it has let dogma and ritual get in the way. In a more reasonable organisation, the bishop would have said to the priest, "I say, old chap, let's have a discussion and see what we can do to reach a compromise between our positions". Under Paul XXIII that might have been a possibility, certainly not under the present pontiff. If it were not for the charitable organisations such as Vinnies and its hospitals, the Catholic Church would have very little relevance in today's world.

Reaching 88 on June 3rd and having lost my wife who told me the night before she died that she still loved me, wondered why she said that after I'd boozed and played golf for much of our 32 years retirement.

Certainly I hugged and tearfully kissed her deeply and told her how much I loved her too, hoping of course as Christians we might meet again in an Afterlife.

But still must say that I have never been moved much by faith, even less so with what a mess we seem to be making of our world, making me rely much more on Hope, believing that such a prayer seems much more genuine these days than one of faith.

Cheers, BB, WA.

ShazBaz001,
As far as I know also the churches of the levebvrist Brotherhood of st Pius X (as well as the many Evangelical churches e.g. in the US, where they kept a “rightist” president in office for 8 years) are “full and pulsating” although they diverge from the Catholic position in the opposite direction: to the “right” of it, whereas Kennedy‘s direction is to the “left”, to use a very simplified language. [Kennedy and Williamson, neither of them excommunicated and neither of them allowed to function as priests.]

Both sides claim the Catholic Church will fade into irrelevance if it does not follow their direction. An that indeed is a problem, not for me but for the Catholic Church which, in addition to having to resist this pull from the two extremes, also has to (wants to) retain its, to large extent historically entrenched, identity.

VK3AUU,
"I say, old chap, let's have a discussion“ would probably be the right approach if Bathersby headed a local, Brisbane based, Church, and Kennedy wanted to remake it or split. However, as you well know, Bathersby is just the local representative of an institution with nominally over one billion adherents (and 914 archbishops as well as 405,000 priests), most of whom have never heard of either Bathersby or Kennedy.

bushbred,
Although it does not belong to what Christians call Revelation, I think Krishna’s “Whatever god a man worships, it is I who answer the prayer” could be seen as such in the sense that it does not matter how you call your prayers - or whom you wish to direct them to - it is He who will hear and understand you (although I did not understand how Hope was an alternative to, and not a component of, faith ).

George wrote;

"However, as you well know, Bathersby is just the local representative of an institution with nominally over one billion adherents (and 914 archbishops as well as 405,000 priests), most of whom have never heard of either Bathersby or Kennedy."

Dear George,

At one time most citizens of the vast Roman Empire worshipped a pantheon of gods. At one time adherents of the Manichaean religion were found in Spain, China and all countries in between. To the best of my knowledge neither religion now has adherents.

Neither numbers nor extent determine the continued existence or correctness of a religion. I venture to say that the Catholic church, like all other religions, will one day be of interest only to antiquarians and historians.

You, I, Bathersby, Kennedy and Mrs. Calabash will mingle with the dust of eternity.

Round that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.