(ctd) When discussing the Catholic and, say, Lutheran versions of Christianity, there are some things that are better seen from the one perspective, others from the other. As there are insights that are better expressed in English than, say, in German, and vice versa. If you have sufficient knowledge of both languages, you can compare. However, if one of them is your mother tongue it will always show through. As in our case.

The pre-Vatican II Church‘s approach to Protestants was that they should give up their new found identities, and return to the fold of the “Mother Church”. Today some want the Catholic Church to give up its identity, to sever its centuries old ties to tradition, and become just one of the myriad of Christian Churches and denominations. I think both approaches are examples of wrong ecumenism.

An essential feature of Catholic Christianity is its teaching about freedom of informed conscience. Unfortunately, it is often ignored (by conservatives) or abused (by rebels). Let me put it also this way: The old slide rule was based on the concept of logarithm; the slide rule was abandoned but not logarithms which remain the same even in the age of computers. The Church insists - or should insist - on the importance of “logarithms” but many (including some bishops) interpret this as a preference for the “slide rule“ over the “computer“, and base their acceptance or rejection on this interpretation.

Until the present stock market meltdown it was generally accepted, that it had its ups and downs but the overall direction was upwards. I think something similar can be said about the fortunes of Christianity, especially its Catholic version: the recent decades have witnessed a sharp “down“ (within the cultural West) but looking at the 2000 years of its history, I believe the overall trend is up and there won’t come a “meltdown”. Yes, this is just a belief, whatever its motivations. One of them might be the fact that e.g. today there are many more Chinese than German Catholics attending mass every Sunday (not to mention Christians in general).

More Chinese Catholics than Germans? Catholicism is not disoriented.

Davidf,

Yes, it appears that Kennedy has tried to make changes from within; and Right-wing or moderate Catholics can argue till the cows come home about the advisability of these changes. However, when he allowed his feeling about the infalibility of the Pope to become public, he shot himself in the foot. Being educated in Catholic lore he did so with the knowledge that he was nullifying the vows which that lore stated entitled him to be an anointed priest of the Catholic Church.

George.
In some instances I do think it is valid to allow a simple explanation. Yes, it is true that The Church has wanted to rid themselves of this troublesome priest: but they would have had a really difficult time doing so had he remained, publicly, steadfast to his vows.

His public renunciation did simplify the matter. As I said, the issue of the way he conducts his ministry need not even be cited. His maverick status and that of his congregation; controversies such as the Buddhist statue...all become redundant if the man is no longer a Catholic priest. Which the renuciation of his vows ensure.

BB - I shall make a note in my diary. Although, I seem faintly to remember than on one other occasion back in the mists of time we actually were in agreement on another issue. Careful: 3 strikes and you're out as my opposition: we should have to become confederates!

I apologise for the following, but it seems apropos.

A golfer playing in Ireland hooked his drive into the woods. Looking for his ball, he found a little Leprechaun flat on his back, a big bump on his head and the golfer's ball beside him.

Horrified, the golfer got his water bottle from the cart and poured it over the little guy, reviving him.

'Arrgh! What happened?' the Leprechaun asked.

'I'm afraid I hit you with my golf ball,' the golfer says.

'Oh, I see. Well, ye got me fair and square. Ye get three wishes, so whaddya want?'

'Thank God, you're all right!' the golfer answers in relief. 'I don't want anything, I'm just glad you're OK, and I apologize.'

And the golfer walks off.

'What a nice guy,' the Leprechaun says to himself.

I have to do something for him. I'll give him the three things I would want... a great golf game, all the money he ever needs, and a fantastic sex life.'

A year goes by and the golfer is back. On the same hole, he again hits a bad drive into the woods and the Leprechaun is there waiting for him.

'Twas me that made ye hit the ball here,' the little guy says. 'I just want to ask ye, how's yer golf game?'

'My game is fantastic!' the golfer answers. I'm an internationally famous golfer now.' He adds, 'By the way, it's good to see you're all right.'

'Oh, I'm fine now, thank ye. I did that fer yer golf game, you know. And tell me, how's yer money situation?'

'Why, it's just wonderful!' the golfer states. 'When I need cash, I just reach in my pocket and pull out $100 bills I didn't even know were there!'

'I did that fer ye also.' And tell me, how's yer sex life?'

The golfer blushes, looks around then whispers, 'Once, sometimes twice a week.'

'What??' responds the Leprechaun in shock. 'That's all? Only once or twice a week?'

'Well,' says the golfer, 'I figure that's not bad for a Catholic priest in a small parish.'

I'm probably an atheist.

However, I recognise that religions - including Christianity - provide billions of people worldwide with frameworks of meaning and morality around which they organise their lives.

In this case, it seems to me that the Brisbane diocese of the Catholic church has exceeded its remit in going for Father Kennedy because he has apparently offended the local Archbishop's authority.

I mean, this is a church and congregation that defies trends for mainstream Christian denominations by attracting and retaining believers to the faith. That this novel addition to the congregation apparently incorporates significant proportions of Indigenous and gay Christians apparently offends the Pope's local branch manager.

Although I'm not a Christian and I don't live in Brisbane, as it happens I'm familiar with this particular Church and its associated annexes, via attendance at community events and meetings held there.

As a non-Christian, St Mary's Church at South Brisbane has always epitomised to me the model of enlightened Christianity in praxis. That it attracts Murris, Gays, students and street people only adds to its intrinsic value to the community.

It's not as if Catholic dogma is immutable in local contexts - for example, priests can marry in parts of Africa and Eastern Europe.

This seems to me to be a rather interesting case of contemporary Catholic dogmatism gone awry.

God help them.

(Assuming there is one, that is)

It seems that when we get into the realm of Almighty God the interest of the congregation that meets in this forum is awakened. Now Father Kennedy has managed to get a good group going, the management at head office wants to shut him down.

I once got a letter from Archbishop Peter Jensen in Sydney, saying that any law contrary to the Bible was void. I agree with him. The Pope thought the Magna Carta was contrary to his intepretation of the Holy Bible, way back in 1215, and annulled it. Trouble was the Poms thought that was not cricket, and refused to accept the umpires decision.

That is the law that the Roman Catholics have accepted by coming to Australia, accepting membership of this country, and then promptly trying to assert authoritarian rule in the Papal model. The Papal model is to have a Priest/Judge. The English model was to have a selection of 12 members of the Congregation overrule any law made by the Pope or Parliament, if they thought it un-Christian. Pope Robert Menzies, Pope Malcolm Fraser, and Pope John Howard like the Papal model, and have set out to divide Australia into nine Papal enclaves, with one Archbishop, and eight other Bishops, of the Secular Church. The Division in the Labor Party between the Anglicans and the Roman Catholics, led to an end to forty years of Labor in Queensland.

The Church/capitalist model is that the Church corporation owns the building. Just like a wanton landlord, it can evict a tenant, but this tenant is not an ordinary tenant, it is the body of Christ. Trouble is a pesky little sect made up of barristers and solicitors, has taken over the law in Australia and the law has become the God. Almighty God invented anger, for the sole purpose of enforcing the law. It is time the nasty landlord backed off, and left the Body of Christ as the tenant. The threat to bomb the Archbishop was taken seriously by the Police. Its time Rome backed off, and obeyed the Holy Bible