David, some of the people involved aren't what I assume to be experts in basic democracy philosophy or ideology. I mean Hamas and some extremist Islamic Palestinians, not Israelis. They are religious extremist and actually western or Israeli ideology on human rights, endorses women's rights. Something some Islamic extremists will not
recognize, and this undermines their control as men over their immediate sexual and social/religious environment? And amongst men
also.

This solution sounds logical and reasonable but I doubt the
Egyptians nor Jordanians wish to take on the responsibility of these
hot head Hamas lead people who wish to degrade women's rights back to the 15th century. They are ignorant! And can't adjust to modern
democratic and human rights ideologies.

Go in peace...

luv Bush bunny from Australia

David Singer,

The facts that you stated are correct facts. What remains is their interpretation.

"Israel is not prepared to cede any more territory in the West Bank and Gaza since to do so would involve the removal of about 500000 Jews."

Including about half of them (250000, mostly in Eastern-Jerusalem) that do not want to be there, who were lured into the territories out of economic-desperation when governments provided them exteremly cheap mortgages that were impossible to get elsewhere. They hate the place and pray for the day they can leave, but cannot afford other housing: is the government listening?

no, it is too busy with abstract ideology than listening to its citizens.

I also wish for Jordan and Egypt to take over those cursed territories (unlike you, all of them, to the last millimeter), or be it Martians if they will, or let these areas suddenly turn into an ocean, but when we open our eyes in the morning, they are still there.

True, the "Palestinian" people are a fiction, but there are about 3 million people right there that believe and feel they belong to this fiction. We must respect their feelings, regardless whether or not they are based on real historical facts.

"If anyone has a better view of what should happen then let him put up the proposal and let it be discussed"

Certainly:

It is not enough to stop and punish Hamas, it is as important to balance it by rewarding those Palestinians who are ready to accept Israel peacefully. Place the defence and security of the citizens of Israel first, no problem, but place generosity to others second. Be cruel, but only when necessary, and magnanimous at other times. Care for the well-being of real people, not for rotten old ideas. Stop thinking in terms of "Jews" and "gentiles", but consider all benevolent people as equal.

Bush bunny and Yuyutsu

Until Jordan,Egypt and Israel sit down and negotiate the division of sovereignty of the West Bank and Gaza between their respective States, any speculation as to the possible outcome of those negotiations is futile.

Jordan, Egypt and Israel may require some inducements to get them to sit down at the negotiating table such as the promise of future aid, diplomatic support and military assistance. But none of them should be allowed to weasel out of entering into those trilateral negotiations simply by stating they want to have nothing to do with the West Bank and Gaza since all three at one time or another were the three sovereign states that have continuously occupied those territories for the last 61 years apart from the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.

The Palestinian Authority has had 15 years to negotiate a settlement
regarding sovereignty in the West Bank and Gaza and has failed to grasp the nettle. The negotiations on the Bush Roadmap have hit a brick wall due to irreconcilable differences between the Palestinian Authority and Israel.

Some other Arab negotiators will now have to step up to the plate if the Arabs wish to try and peacefully gain Arab sovereignty over that territory for the first time in history to the exclusion of Israel.

Jordan and Egypt remain the only possible interlocutors especially as both enjoy full diplomatic relations and signed peace treaties with Israel - something that has so far eluded the Palestinian Authority and will continue to elude the Palestinian Authority because of its refusal to moderate its 40 years old unchanged demands as well as revoke the PLO Charter that calls for Israel's destruction.

Redrawing the borders between Israel, Egypt and Jordan should hopefully prove to be a reasonably easy task in those trilateral negotiations.

If you have any better proposal to try and break the ongoing deadlock please let me know.

David,

How do they say in Israel... "If Grandma had wheels, she would have surely given me a ride!", so as we started to discuss practical solutions for solving the world's problems, let us start mining the cheese of the moon: it will be sufficient to feed the hungry population of this earth many times over!

"If you have any better proposal to try and break the ongoing deadlock please let me know."

Yes: Disband both Hamas and the Jewish settlers simultaneously, treat them both just as we treat the bikie-gangs in South Australia, then everything else will fall into place and peace will come naturally.

(the PA and Israel may require some inducements to get them to do the policing effectively, such as the promise of future aid, diplomatic support and military assistance)

No need for new plans as there are several good ones already, including the Roadmap. The only difference is that this time it will be followed SINCERELY. The Palestinian Authority has shown its sincerity by curbing Hamas in the west-bank and stopping terror attacks even while the fighting was going on in Gaza. Unlike your claim, they already revoked the relevant items on their charter that call for Israel's destruction - it is now time for Israel to exhibit the same sincerity.

Yuyutsu

You really are trying to mine cheese on the moon or perhaps indulging in pie in the sky or tongue in cheek comments. Best of British in ever seeing your solution come to fruition.

By the way the PLO Covenant has not been altered to my knowledge by even one word since it was first promised to be done in 1993. I am however ready to be corrected. Perhaps you can post the evidence to support your claim by referring me to any site where I might view the new document.

The Roadmap is dead and buried and has been for almost five years since George Bush wrote his letter to Ariel Sharon on 14 April 2004. Read it and you will see why. [http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/historicaldocuments/260.shtml]

The Roadmap did not even rate a mention in the 63 pages of evidence given by Hillary Clinton to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee ten days ago.

The PLO have even said they want to now negotiate on a totally new basis - namely the 2002 Saudi Peace Plan. That too has the same inherent defects that caused the Roadmap negotiations to end in tatters.

Sadly Hamas based terrorists are still firing rockets into South Israel.
I think Palestinians need other much stronger Islamic leaders to stop this. I heard that the Israeli diplomat in Sydney said that Iran was
a problem, and if this is the case, it does not become a problem between Israelis and Hamas but the rest of the world.

Let all live in peace