Hamas does not makes its own rockets; the 6,000 or so that they have fired into Israel are manufactured in Iran and Russia.

Good to see BD back.

To examinator:

You state "I do believe in the 1967 borders and reparation paid." Let me comment as follows:

1. There were no 1967 borders. They were only the armistice lines between Jordan and Israel and Israel and Egypt after the 1948 War. The West Bank and Gaza are still in 2008 "no man's land". Both Jews and Arabs have claims to sovereignty that are currently trying to be resolved under the Roadmap proposals without any success.

2. No return to the 1967 armistice lines by Israel was contemplated by United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 nor was the creation of another Arab State in the West Bank and Gaza between Jordan, Israel and Egypt mentioned in the resolution. The Arabs had 19 years to create such a State between 1948-1967 and had failed to do so.

3. If the Arabs had been prepared to negotiate with Israel immediately after Jordan's loss of the West Bank and Egypt's loss of Gaza in the 1967 War when not one Jew lived in the West Bank or Gaza (they had all been driven out by Jordan and Egypt in 1948) the boundaries would have been easier to draw. However the Arabs refusal to negotiate with Israel until 1993 prevented this occurring.

4. 500000 Jews now living in the West Bank make it practically impossible to do otherwise than divide the West Bank between Jews and Arabs. You can't force 500000 Jews to pack up and leave against their will.

5. Reparations should certainly be part of any resolution. They could be possibly used to induce Jews living in the West Bank to voluntarily resettle in Israel to facilitate an easier subdivision of the West Bank between the Jews and Arabs continuing to live there.

6 Neither Jews nor Arabs can realistically hope to end up with internationally recognised sovereignty in 100% of the West Bank. The Jews have accepted that proposition. The Arabs still have not. Until they do no possible solution to end the conflict will occur.

MX2

"For centuries there was no such conflict. In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population"

As long as the Jews Christians etc accepted an inferior Dhimmi status. Paid special taxes, Synagogues and Churches has to be smaller than the local Mosque, in some countries their houses had to be lower than those of the Muslims. Egypt did not allow Jews a Passport.

Some multiculturalism. Hamas Hezbollah Taliban Al Qaida Wahabi want that to continue, a major part of the problem.

And note well, at least half of the Jews in Israel are of ME stock, refugees from Islamic intolerance - they left their property behind, the Palestinians are not unique in their disadvantage.

And while we are at it, let's squash this overcrowding myth once and for all.

Area Population Density (persons/sq. mile)
Gaza 8666
District of Columbia 9176
Gibraltar 11,990
Singapore 17,751
Hong Kong 17,833
Monaco 41,608
Macau 71,466
Cairo 82,893
Calcutta 108,005
Manila 113,810
(Sources ˆ Statistical Abstract of the United States, 2004-2005, Tables 18 and 1321; Demographia -- Population Density: Selected International Urban Areas and Components )

Polycarp,
Your definition of a fool amuses me what you mean is anyone who doesn't see things your way. You still can't distinguish between criticism of an idea and the person.
Again your quotations are one sided.
Blind Freddy knows your stance on all things Muslim and your idiosyncratic views of Christianity. You discuss nothing else.

You are entitled to your views. Like I said have you gained any converts or convinced anyone opposing your bellicose views? I think not. I therefore wonder given that discussion is made impossible by your didactic stance I feel for you isolation. Perhaps a less dogmatic stance might illicit less confrontational conversations.

David,
I am well aware of the history and I’m pragmatically unimpressed. But where we differ is that you want to return to a 1967 agenda simply because it will be easier to negotiate or Israel can throw their weight around easier.
Time and tide have moved on Israel as a protected species due to internal politics in the US. That doesn’t infer morality in all that Israel does. Neither does it legitimize it continual grab for power. Why should the Palestinians be the ones to give and suffer?

My understanding of your organization is merely another means to claim legitimacy and dictate terms to the Palestinians.

As for the 500k being forcibly moved that didn’t bother the founders of Israel when it came to taking their land, the settlers for always pushing the envelope…Oh yes did I mention Israel’s racist internal ‘apartheid polices’. You know the one where intimidation and land theft from Arab Israelis is ignored.
Your views suffer the same logical flaws as any other arm of the Israeli PR machine.
Your is not a discussion just a devious contrivance.

People don't kill people, people with God(s) kill people.

examinator:

Your comment - "But where we differ is that you want to return to a 1967 agenda simply because it will be easier to negotiate or Israel can throw their weight around easier." - is a blatant misrepresentation of what I wrote.

Indeed it is you - not I - who want to return to the 1967 armistice lines existing prior to the Six Day War when
(1) Egypt and Jordan occupied 100% of Gaza and the West Bank
(2) Not one Jew lived there because Egypt and Jordan had driven them all out in 1948 or had massacred and dispersed them before then as in Hebron in 1929.
(3) The opportunity to create a second Arab state in Gaza and the West Bank between 1948 - 1967 - in addition to Jordan - had not been taken up by the Arabs

A return to 1967 is not going to happen for two reasons:
(1) Security Council Resolution 242 which still remains the definitive resolution which brought the Six Day War to an end.
(2) The changed demographics of the West Bank in 2009 where 500000 Jews now live and in which their right to reside is given legal authority by virtue of Article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter

Israel has reportedly offered to cede the Palestinian Authority 93.6% of the West Bank and Gaza plus a piece of Israel's sovereign territory to make up the 6.4% of the West Bank Israel will retain. The Palestinian Authority refuses to accept this offer. This intransigence continues the long list of rejected offers that have seen the Arabs' prospective share of Western Palestine continually decrease with each rejected offer.

That is their entitlement but they then only have themselves to blame for missing yet another opportunity to add to the numerous missed opportunities thrown away by them over the last 70 years.