How disappointing that at this late hour, I am the first to comment. It sorta reinforces what you were saying about men I guess. The majority don't want intelligent females to join hands in a partnership. I found your article well written and witty with an element of truth and I was immediately drawn.
Intelligence and independence has always been attractive to me, but I am now too long in the tooth to imagine another relationship (there's that word again) I live in quiet isolation and am happy with my own company now, having had a divorce 25 years ago......................Oh yes, I do have a special female companion who I just spend time with every weekend. She's been divorced twice and neither of us want to go there again so we live apart. It's funny how many friends we have who say that they wish they could do that !

Marilyn thanks for a thoughtful piece. I've used internet dating in the past. It can be a hurtfull and frustrating experience at times and at other times you get to meet some wonderful people. RSVP used to run a discussion forum which was an interesting way of finding a bit more about the others involved.

My impression is that there is a hard core of players using the dating sites (of both genders) and a lot of other people who just don't know how to make them work for their own needs. There are others who are fortunate enough to connect with just the right person.

I dated a few people I met through RSVP, and met a few others where we decided very quickly that there was nothing to explore. I heard some horror stories from women about experiences with men they had met through the site but I also got the impression that part of that may have been about looking for the wrong things. What sounds to good to be true often is.

I think I grew through spending time with women from outside of the groups I'd normally get to mix in.

I'm undecided about men being turned off by smart women, some maybe but personally it's something I value. Have a think about the how those who push that line present themselves in other ways. When I followed the RSVP forums the women who made that comment the most were the ones who's profiles seemed to be about self centeredness. I suspect that many mistook a dislike of self centerdness for men being intimidated by successfull women. Some seemed to be looking for alpha males and at the same time emphasising that they expected to call the shots.

Some men will be looking for quick flings, others won't want to make promises that they are not sure they can keep up front. I don't know if that results in a lesser committment to a relationship once it's entered into but the language may be different.

Good luck in your search.

R0bert

Marilyn - couldn't agree with you more about the trials of Internet dating. Over the last 10 years it's really become the norm for seeking out dates, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or most successful way of meeting people. It's just times have changed for us.

About 6 years ago a friend of ours had similar experiences in trying to meet suitable 'friends'. He had the great idea of creating a symbol that would be readily recognisable by other like minded Singles and that's how the SHI Symbol was born. Check it out if you get a moment, see the variety of ways it can be used/seen and you'll see it's stylish, classy and people who ARE Single and Happy and Interested (hence the SHI) will be equally happy to recognize you are too if you are wearing or using one as well. It just takes the guessing out of working out who is or isn't single. (It's thought of as the opposite to wearing a wedding band that tends to signify you are taken). It works for ALL Singles from 16-80 and has the ability to be recognized worldwide due to the Venus/Mars combination used in the design. I'm telling you all this because there are plenty of ways to meet people in your EVERYDAY LIFE activities, and when you least expect them eg walking to work, walking your dog in the park, Uni library and so on.

Speed dating, internet dating, dinner for sixes and so on all have their places. Don't give up on the Internet Dating, it's just that SHI Symbol can just help you maximise your opportunities for meeting people when you're offline - which is most of the time! As Robert commented- along the lines of - when he started to mix with people outside his normal group, that's when you start to meet more 'possiblities' - that's what it's all about. It will happen, you just need to make every opportunity count in whatever way you can.

Perhaps you are asking too much, from too little, Marilyn. I don't know how many you can meet on the net, or if you can find love in a resume.

I had known, probably, a couple of thousand young ladies, when at 21 I first found love. Through the flashing lights there was a problem. I was booked to go to the UK, to race cars, & all she wanted was a house, & kids. After 4 or 5 months, the letters petered out. I hope she had her kids.

Seven years later, after I'd met a thousand more, I was in Sydney, [not a world champion], getting a yacht ready to sail to the Carolines, when it happened again. Sky rockets, bells, & whistles all going off, I was in love. With, would you believe, a ballet choreographer, who was going to the USA, for a years study. This time the letters did not stop, & 2 years later we were together in Sydney. But I had a contract in the Marianas & she had a season on Londons west end. This time there were no letters.

Seven years & a thousand more ladies, I met one who had sailed half way around the world. No bells, & whistles, but great warmth, & a year later we had, ridiculously, moved ashore & started raising kids.

25 years later, with the kids all moved to the big smoke, the grand kids started. She could not stand the distance, & had to move closer. I have 20 acres, with 1 bird, 1 cat, 2 dogs, & 3 horses left behind by the kids. I have my 32 year old sports car, & a 20 year old ute to to the horse float, & a few friends.

I don't expect any more ladies, I don't know if I have anything left to offer one, & I certainly won't go hunting one, on the net. Love is not a cerebral thing, if it finds you great, but looking for it will just make you unhappy.

Now that's real wisdom.

>>Love. If it finds you, great. But looking for it will just make you unhappy.<<

I hope you don't mind, Hasbeen, I've shifted the punctuation a little, to turn it into a motto that everyone should copy carefully onto the flyleaf of their life.

As a middle-aged long-time single male, I’ve never even for a moment considered internet dating.

“Love. If it finds you, great. But looking for it will just make you unhappy.”

Yerp. That’s been in my ‘flyleaf’ for a couple of decades now.

.
Thanks for sharing your potted life history Hasbeen. It gave this hard old bugger a dose of soggy eyeballs and sniffles.

Pericles, be my guest.

Ludwig, thanks, but no sniffles for me mate. I have had a fantastic life. I have been places, & seen, & done things that very few get a chance to.

A few years ago, at a reunion of a car club, we formed 45 years ago, I met some old friends, not seen for 40 years. Couples who were married as teenagers, & are happily together still. One couple are still driving the car he bought new in 62, that they courted in back then. I asked my self, would I swap their life for mine, & the answer was a definate no.

I was only trying to show Marilyn that you can't rush these things. Love you can find in a week, will, probably be gone just as quickly. Meanwhile, do some of the things you always wanted to. Join a golf club, or a fishing club. Pony clubs always want helpers, as do theatre groups.

Buy a sports car, a boat, or plant a hedge. It may be the bloke at the nursery who's been waiting for you, all his life, but don't try to hurry. Just enjoy what you have, & look forward to tomorrow.

Dear Marilyn
actually there are some benefits to having the permission to be the 'me" i want to be. since being involved in internet dating, I have expanded my interests and grown intellectually and socially. before internet dating I was lonely with no outlets... now i have actually made a couple of internet friends (the modern equivalent to pen friends) and learnt a lot. i have never met any of the people i contacted... and dont expect ever to either... but i have enjoyed my experience... lets face it..it was free...it was fun...it was friendly.... Try taking life less seriously and see how much fun you really can have!

Thanks guys for your input, very interesting. Are my expectations too high?? I don't think so. If I settle for second best I'll make two people unhappy.

I have two volunteer jobs locally (a small art gallery and Meals on Wheels). I'm in the process of joining the local Bush Fire Brigade ..not to meet men but to contribute to my community.

I was accused this week on a dating site of being 'up yourself'. I didn't retaliate but asked why he thought that way and what could I do to change my profile. Three days later he wants to meet me! I DO have 'people skills' (thank you uni)

One thing I refuse to add to my profile is the fact I am looking for love/affection AND a spicey, intimate relationship. I may be old, but not dead.

So guys, what am I doing wrong?? I email men, speak with them on the phone and sometimes meet them. If there's no 'oooomph', I don't pursue it any further. I know there are men out there looking for an intimate, monogomous, affectionate relationship, but where are they?? I can attract plenty of 20-30 year olds, but I have shoes older than that.

So guys, what am I doing wrong??

Marilyn, unless there s something really glaring about your profile it's not necessarily doing something wrong. The rules around dating are messy.

"If I settle for second best I'll make two people unhappy." - the tough bit in that is being sure of what is best. It's probably not best if you look for the same things you've looked for in past relationships that have not worked. It's probably not best if you are looking for an idealised image, someone else custom made to your expectations rather than a living human being with good points and some stuff that might not be how we'd want it. Your article seemed to indicate that's not what you are looking for but on the topic it's something I think a lot of singles do.

Sometimes the best bits are in the unexpected.

Be careful of what you read into peoples use of language. I remember a discussion on one forum where most of the women were saying they interpret a male refering to being broad minded as an expectation of willingness to take part in very fringe kinky sex whereas I'd consider it to be a keeness to exercise some control over biggotry, to be willing to explore new ideas and weight things based on their merits. Both uses of the term are valid and used but we need to exercise care not to assume the worst.

On a similar vein I have the impression that men and women seem to often speak of committment differently. I've not nailed that down to my own satisfaction but don't assume that male reluctance for early committment implies a prefernce for shallow flings (although it will in some cases just as some women will talk of committment and drop out as soon as something does not suit them). There is generalisations in that which certainly are not universal, the issue is really not to assume that because someone else uses different terms or a different timeframe that they don't want many of the same things.

R0bert

Thanks RObert. I am not looking for something I once had. I am no longer the same woman I was. I am new and exciting and life is my adventure. I can't act my age as I don't know my age. I can be old and wise or young and flirty ... both are 'me'. The old me was old, I'm not old.

I was chatting, a few years ago, with the Psychiatrist from uni. and offered myself as a case study subject if ever she needed one and was told I am 'too normal' which frightened me.

You're right about the language and meanings of words. I refuse to even read a message from a man looking for 'other relationship'. Unfortunately I have stereo typed a poor, innocent man. Because I'm 'Beautiful and Brilliant' (why lie!!) some men may not see me that way. I understand what you mean. OK ... one change coming up :)

Where do I meet men?? I don't go to clubs or pubs, I belong to community groups, my friends (ranging from 28 to 78) are mainly single women, Introduction Agencies charge an arm and a leg. I don't want a celebant relationship but I do not want a fling either. I respect me too much for that. Please don't advise me to put that on my profile .. I'd die. Oddly enough, I am basically shy.

Keep thinking guys ....

Marilyn, I think its a numbers game.

A mate of mine was estblishing his new business. When he came back from a week long trip, I asked him how it had gone, the answer was, fantastic. I asked him how much he had sold, nothing.

He said it was an oats, & chaff thing. He'd found 8 grains of oats, who would be good customers, once he had proven he would service them regularly, & he'd blown a hundred bits of chaff, out of his call book, that he did not have to bother with again. His business was very successful.

Keep getting out there. It may take a thousand ho-hums, for one ooomph, but there is no ooomph for the depressed.

Stay enthusiastic about life. Enthusiasm is so exciting people are drawn to it, from miles away.

Marilyn the meeting people bit is tough. I met my girlfriend on the train and we knew each other well before we ventured to risk exploring if our friendship coulod be more. So far it's been an amazing surprise to both of us just how well it works. I doubt that either of us would have picked the other from internet profiles but we knew a lot about each others values before we started dating which has helped.

Community groups, interest groups have their place but there is also some social stuff around them being used to "pick up" in any context. Men may be shy to make the first move because if it's unwelcome it can give them a bad reputation in a group which might be otherwise very important to them. I don't know how you get around that.

RSVP started running some non-party type activites in SE Qld some time back. Bushwalking, tennis etc. I don't know how that went but at least with those types of activities you don't commit a social indiscression by making your interest in someone known.

Meeting new singles, finding out if they are worth getting to know as a potential partner and then working out if they are similarly interested can be a hard thing.

I suspect that what you say about yourself in a profile matters little to many. How you say it does appear to make a big difference.

From my perspective I'd rather tell a woman that she is beautiful and brilliant than have her announce it. On the other hand I avoided those who went to great length to detail their short comings. The mix that works for me is someone who can do beautifull but also get dirty in the garden when they need to. Someone with the confidence to hold a meaningful discussion and take on challenges when they find them. Likewise a focus on negative qualities is unappealing.

I'm away over the wekend so I'll chat more next week.

Cheers
R0bert

It is quite possible that the author will never find the 'right' man because none are good enough.

Many women have a long list of essential criteria that a man much match up against. Fail one and a polite refusal could be more than a man is entitled to. Many men fail, which proves there must indeed be a 'man drought'. After all, there should be hundreds, maybe thousands, of men who should meet the lengthy criteria unique to each woman. Worse, many criteria compete or are mutually exclusive. For example, a man who is warm and sensitive is unlikely to be the raging hunk who would deflower her on her kitchen table.

Meet all criteria and whoosh, the man is on the railway line bound for Commitment with the only stops in between being the essential 'tests' to 'prove' he is a 'good catch' and is not telling porkies. The railway line to commitment introduces yet another problem, because although the woman knows the 'right' destination and the expected steps to get there, she rarely lets her intended in on the secret. No wonder so many men lack 'commitment' - they never knew that was the automatic default for getting to 'yes' for the second date.

Anyhow, that is how most men describe the mating game from their side and not all would be telling lies now would they?

Contd post 2.

Post 2

However there is another way for the author and that is to simply forget hunt for Mr Right, throw away the very long list of criteria, disregard 'the rules' and simply concentrate on trying out activities she hasn't tried before to enlarge her field of acquaintances. Go out and enjoy life. Do something different, even if at first it doesn't look that interesting.

Naturally at least some of the people she will meet will be men and here comes the easy part - don't look them over as targets for Mr Right, just relate to them as normal people. Put a lot of time and energy into really trying to get to know others and better still trying to be of service to them and the community and who knows, perhaps some magic will happen.

As a reality check, maybe it is enough to find someone you can relate to and who will accept you despite your faults. If he has three strands of hair tied behind in a pig tail, so what, he has to put up with this obsession about being 'tactile', whatever that means.

Cornflower, My favourite colour is cornflower blue :) and I love men. However, I find that men around my age are often newly divorced or separated and really do have a lot of baggage. The three strands of hair tied into a pony-tail is a common sight here in the mountains at certain times of the year (older man/younger woman syndrom). I realy have no problem with that, it was just an observation.

Internet dating is basically selling ones self to the world. I'm not going to say I'm short, dumpy and dumb ... it's not true! Society has changed, the world has changed and in some cases not for the better. Internet dating is like what used to be 'blind dating' except you know a little more about the person by the time you meet.

I just can't bring myself to go to a club or pub to meet a man, so where do I go?? I don't think my expectations are too high, I would say they are very normal .. honesty and sincerity. IF the attraction is there... take it further. Please NO lies in your profile and know I do NOT want to 'mother' any man. I say the truth in my profile (the Beautiful and Brilliant bit was a bit of psych and fun)

*NO one night stands.*

Ooh, I think that as people get older, they get more set in their
ways. Often they each have their own agenda and want somebody else
to fit in with that. So there is a clash.

Your other option would be to change your philosophy.
Lead your life as you want, then have a number of male
friends with benefits :) That's what the young ones
call it and it makes alot of sense

Mally-p

Some quick comments which might prove useful to you.

It is easier to meet people while doing the normal things you like to do or have to do to maintain your lifestyle. Rather than casting around for Mr Right, aim to get to know a broad range of people and nurture friendships that are offered. It is important to cultivate a few mixed groups of friends and acquaintances, which ensures you are regularly in contact with people and moving around the community.

More contacts and higher mobility seem to come from having a range of interests, rather than just one or two, and there are many options that don't require a large investment of time or money. I don't automatically knock back opportunities to try different things, even where I am reasonably sure the activity will probably not be an enduring thing for me. Friendship is about give and take and who knows, it might be fun after all.

You will be surprised how many interesting, genuine and kind people you will be introduced to as friends of friends. They come from all walks of life too, depending on the activity. When the focus is on an activity rather than on meeting the opposite sex, there is no pressure on women because everyone is just trying to get along and enjoy life, a big part of which is enjoying time with others. In any event, most groups have informal rules that ensure respect and good behaviour by all.

There are many good men and women out there, however I doubt that they are as easy to find on internet dating sites.

if you want to meet men - get involved in the same sort of activities that men like, go sailing, ride motorbikes, play billiards, join the fire brigade. As men are visual creatures go through your wardrobe and toss out all outfits that don't work or are old and sad, perhaps get some new clothes from Target or Vinnies. Check your hair style flatters the face you now have and isn't too short, don't want to be confused with lesbians.

Move away from the inner urban areas where women outnumber men to rural areas where single men outnumber single women.

Remember that many middle aged single men with undeveloped social skills still think they are attractive to young women in their early 20s. The most presentable and sociable fellas generally have been trained up by a woman who they are still married to.

"Check your hair style flatters the face you now have and isn't too short, don't want to be confused with lesbians."
Posted by billie, Monday, 10 November 2008 6:46:01 AM

Billie, are you serious? It might shock you to learn this, but the majority of gay women don't have a crewcut and wear denim overalls...

Hi,
I am John, Founder of Dating-profile.com. We write online dating profiles for people looking for love online.
Internet Dating is here to stay and each day more and more people join online dating sites to meet new people. It is by far the most efficient way to get dates, IMHO.
Would like to invite you to check out our services-we have a complete 100% money back guarantee-so confident am I that you will be delighted and get great results from a profile written by a member of my staff. We do have a decent number of clients from Australia.
Thanks
John
Founder
Dating-profile.com

Billy, thanks for your input, however, I agree with Indy. Because I have short hair I am not a lesbian,. I mean, think about it why would a lesbian be looking for a male partner?? I am all woman, I oooooz feminity, may be I am just too much woman for the men out there (said very tongue in cheek!!)

I am one year older now, and still alone (except for my toy poodle ) I was reared in the country on a sheep/wheat farm but I'm too old now to help with the physical work required on a property. So that leaves out a farmer.

In 'real life' I attract men a lot younger and it seems to be the same in the Internet. However I am not willing to date a man just a few years older than my son.

Oh well, maybe Santa will be interested ... nahh, he's married too !! :) :)