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Bronwyn

‘This to me is the big failure of feminism. It has failed to have any taming effect on the market or any real success in civilising the workplace […]Women are competing with men and they are doing it on men's terms.’

The way this reads, you are placing most of the responsibility for this ‘failure’ in the hands of feminism – which is a tad unfair (that’s if I’m reading it correctly).

Firstly, blaming feminism for not achieving its goals – without mentioning the well-connected and well-funded backlash pressures against it – is like blaming Cuba for its poverty without mentioning the embargo. There is just so much a movement can achieve with the collective foot of society’s threatened conservative forces permanently on its neck.

Secondly, even without the encumbrance of the backlash, why should taming the market and workforce be feminism’s responsibility – especially when much of its lifespan (at least the Second and Third Waves) has covered the most extreme period of zealous free-market ideology in modern history?

Thirdly, it is well beyond the role or responsibility of feminism to change society to value feminine resources. Even if it were, women typically cannot forcefully assert this ‘feminine power’ without being perceived as a threat.

The post-industrial economy wanted women out of the kitchen because it needed a ready supply of cheap labour and a new market. It thought it could reap those benefits and give little to nothing back to women in return. It thought right.

Spikey – your reference to members shows both an unhealthy preoccupation and envy, maybe spikey by name, spikey by endowment.

Bronwyn” While she is furthering her career ambitions, someone else is doing most of the hands on mothering of her young Downs Syndrome baby.”

And have you bothered to find out who or are you just “firing from the hip”

The other point is, we are each responsible for our children’s welfare.

She, like every other parent is entitled to buy the childcare services she needs, just like millions of other working mothers.

I suggest you stop trying to demonize her for the very choices millions of others make regularly.

Btw, ever get the idea, your opinion of me counts for nought?

Passy “The rise of the dictator Stalin - the man who set about establishing State capitalism in Russia and was the gravedigger of the revolution”

I recall both Lenin and Marx had a few words to say in support of “state capitalism“ too.

Further, Lenin managed to starve a few million to death (not sure if any were actually put in graveyards or just ploughed back into the fields) and that was well before Stalin took control of the organization.

You can keep trying to distance yourself from the consequences of the policies you espouse Passy,
It is an impossible task but do keep trying and I will keep correcting you.

Cornflower,

'Why should they own the baggage of older generations?'
They shouldn't.

'Why should they be thankful?'
Just as with your RSL example, it's about respect. Some individuals may not return the respect to the younger generation, so in that case fair enough when no respect is returned. But sacrifices were made, and the fruits of those sacrifices are being enjoyed. A bit of thanks wouldn't go astray. Not saying that thanks should include joining up for a cause that no longer has any relevance though. Recognise, while you're moving on.

James,

'I guess that is their idea of equality, they talk and express their ideas and opinions, and anyone who wishes to challange them better shut up.'

That's gold.

Robert,

'We do need to take care not to ignore our own contributions to the tone of debate and just assume that it's the other side.'
That's pointless. On the other topic you mentioned, ALL my contributions were dismissed as vitriol, bullying, personally insulting. One poster determined I shouldn't have the temerity to address them. When I asked for evidence of any personal insults, or bullying, deafening silence.

I have come to the conclusion, that to not agree with every aspect of feminism, is bullying, personally insulting vitriol.

Passy,

'Anti-woman propaganda makes much of this "choice"'
Who commissions this propaganda, and what is their budget? If 70% of women with young children want to be at home, why are we being so arrogant as to re-engineer society to tell these women their choice isn't valid. The poor dears, they've just swallowed the propaganda, and their maternal feelings are not real. We know what's best for them!

As robert says 'rather than switching the direction of the pressure for a new stereotype. I see the difference between breaking down an old stereotype and creating a new one but I don't see how limiting choices is a good way to do that.'

Col R

OK I withdraw the inference about your sausage, but not my plea that you give us a decent argument.

You know, one that has facts, logic and reason attached, not just insult and anger.

Col Rouge,

Examinator's not here!
I've read his post and been through your all of yours. While I don't agree with all he says at least it is logical and actually discusses the topic 'Feminism is not a dirty word'.
However, the same can’t be said for the arrogance and narcissism.

eAnt