pelican wrote 'Are you implying that it is women's nature to be unfaithful and that all women are unfaithful?'

thats a good question, and I expect every reasoning man to have answered by himself ever before wanting to be a father, or for that matter getting into a relationship with a women...and part of the fathers revolution...

and to 'many women including myself that have never been unfaithful'...its the answer I expect from any women who is\ wants to continue a\the relationship with a man...whether its the truth/fact or not...its part of the 'survival' instinct which law recognized long ago...hope you understand that part now...

and I dont expect anyone to refuse/deny that they have know/experienced people creating acceptable social face and life...and...dark lifestyle protected with extreme care...and in my experience by numbers women have well developed skills set at this...and men developing particular counterskills to dealing with women is essential...agree?...part of the revolution...

and on...essentially its a world where person has skills set to effectively deal with all that exists in the world of people and dealing with them...and so effectively keep/secure their body space and in relationships find what they thought/expected becomes more often the fact in the relatoiship...or not getting into a relationship as the preferred option for ones abilities...so surrogate laws needed to allow men to have children...

Sam
Ps~nothing worse that a family breakup...with good father removed from child...to a man...so lets get smarter guys...first wake up...we need to create more choices for us than what currently available...learn from what women as a organized group have effectively achieved for their self-benefit and expanded their available choices...

Anansie Biological make up surely does make a father. You can't escape the facts. Of course men will be a father figure to children they know not to be theirs. [A defacto father] You said you were glad your husband did not ask :: It is very important to men knowing they are the bioligical parent, if there is any doubt at all it will never go away. A lot of the reason behind devorce cases i suspect.

Anansie,
“Feminism did much to dismantle patriarchy which restricts both women AND men.”

It has all been political hasn’t it. The belief that removing fathers from families is good for children, and good for society, because fathers are evil and “patriarchal”

Amazingly, this was actually taught in universities, but it was mostly taught by people who didn’t have any children. (eg the Germaine Greers). It is still being taught in UK universities, where 1 in 4 children are being raised in a lone parent household, and Australia is becoming very similar.

The Marxist/feminist experiment of mass abortion, mass divorce and mass abduction of children from fathers is failing. Societies that have indulged in that experiment are now having so few children, that they are being taken over by other societies that don’t believe in mass abortion, mass divorce and the mass abduction of children from fathers.

Warwick Marsh
Our current society classifies parents as being “custodial or “non-custodial”. This is a system similar to apartheid, and in that system, 90% of non-custodial parents are fathers, (although I think that feminists are becoming concerned, because in the future, more non-custodial parents could be mothers).

I think that the most immediate goal should be the removal from legislation of the terms “custodial” and “non-custodial”, and replacing them with the terms “mother” and “father”.

This has to be done before both motherhood and fatherhood are destroyed, or our society is simply taken over by societies that do believe in motherhood and fatherhood.

Pynchme: "a scholarly article by Michael Flood"

hahaha, for a second I thought you were serious. This is the "sociologist" who has made a career of being "pro-feminist", as he put it on his staff page when he was at Latrobe Uni. The only relationship between his work and scholarship is that both consist of words.

The article was all about fathers being part of their childrens' lives and the positive point that social norms are adjusting to a wider acceptance of fathers as important parents. For a while there it was looking like the pressure on fathers was never going to be let up.

I can't see anything in the article to justify the sorts of diatribes I've seen from some in this thread. Is it so passion-inflaming to suggest fathers are a good thing to have around?

The various authors he quotes have their closet-skeletons, but no more so that others writing from different perspectives. Leaving aside those distractions, they also have sound observations to make. The article demonstrates that those observations have been influential in helping to bring about the social changes that are occurring. Shooting the messenger doesn't change the message.

SJF, " is not exactly a female paradise. "

You are playing a strawman argument here. I've never suggested this is a female paradise but prime care of childen post divorce is something which some people fight dammed hard to get. That can be for a variety of reasons including how they see themselves, how they see their ex, the difference between benefits and having to support themselves and the remote possibility that the family assets which go along with child residency might impact on some peoples behaviour.

It does not have to be a paradise for some people to lie and cheat to get it, it does not have to be a paradise for others to support someones quest for it.

To often this debate is played as if prime care is something that is almost always forced on people and that the standard model is selfless mum and disinterested dad who only wants the kids to minimise the financial impacts on himself. The reality is much more complex than that.

As for how often I'll post my views on this, at this stage as often as it takes. While people still prmote the nasty idea that the only reason men would become involved in a mens group is to maintain control over others I think that there is a need.

My experience of the family law system is of one which did not care about truth. Of Relationships Australia, an organisation which does not even try to appear neutral. Of CSA, an organisation mostly interested in maximising the money that changes hands to make it's own KPI's look better but which also considers males to be more responsible for their childs financial needs than it considers women.

R0bert

Men who are dads prolly dont need the glib sort of standard validation doled out by the PC media and its latest fashion of hidden agenda. Methinks this is a case of the 'man shortage' morphing into the 'daddy shortage.'

Cast fathers in an unusually favourable light and men might by enticed back toward traditional roles. Doubtful, as it looks sus. Men have been witholding. Its pretty obvious.

This fathers day, the change in sentiment was very stark. A complete 180 degree change. This alone is cause for skepticism.