Antiseptic: "As long as women like you choose to identify with the power-hungry..."

Now you're confusing me with Col Rouge.

I'm the one who wished she could've had more time with her daddy.

But, hey, why waste time on the topic when you can spend it denigrating any woman who dares to express an opinion? Any opinion it seems.

Antiseptic, sooooo true thank you.

There are just so many men who know what you say is the truth simply because they experience it every day.

Any man who dares to stick his head up & say that he believes in equal rights because he wants his sons to have the same opportunities as his daughter is immediately tarnished as a 'Woman Hater'

mog,

That's an interesting comment given that your previous post was telling us all about what fathers' advocacy groups should and shouldn't be doing.

Romany,

What a load of unnecessary vitriol you've come up with. Comment or don't, your response isn't that important to me.

I will continue to reply to you because

a) I don't think I am better than you, or that my opinion is better or more valuable than yours.
b) I accept your comments at face value, and don't reject everything you have to say based on some weird preconception.
c) I accept that you reserve the right to comment on posts not addressed to you, but castigate
anyone who dares to do the same.

'admits he often says things just to get a reaction'
Rubbish

'threatens to leave when people respond'
Twice, when being personally attacked. Once so badly Graham deleted the posts on his own volition without any request to do so.

Fact is, you want Robert to denounce all an author has to say because of a few controversial
remarks, but don't apply the same standards to yourself. Go on, denounce Germaine and
everything she has ever had to say because of her comments about and pornography of young boys
before you tell Robert to do the same.

If I had the time or inclination of Steel or someone like that, I could give you all the
published 'outrageous and contentious garbage' from feminists which you say you have never
heard uttered.

Fractelle, Anansi,

Actually I reject the premise of this article. 'more involved, committed and responsible
fathers.'. It's basically a backhanded way of saying before this 'revolution', fathers were just not committed or responsible. Imagine if we talked about a motherhood revolution, where mothers are patronisingly praised for their efforts in the workplace. These new women are now finally committed and responsible enough to aid in providing financially for their children.

I'd like the author to go and say to his father, 'I'm a better father than you, and I'm plainly more commited and responsible than you ever were.'. Pretty offensive really.

Usual Suspect I'll leave most of you comments to Romany for you two to soft out but do want to point out that my impression is that Romany is seeking to understand my approach more than trying to pressure me to change.

Obviously we started with a different understanding and masy still have one but I've not felt inappropriate pressure.

SJF, sorry I didn't follow up previously on your comment re the themes running through Farrell's book. I agree that there is an element of that, it's not something I took on board nor did it seem particularly prevelant to me. I was much more interested in his points about the perception of male power and how most men have actually lived. I'm having a think about the point you have made and seeing how that fits for me. If you are correct then it's an important point just as the underlying assumptions other authors bring to their work is important when determining how seriously to take them.

R0bert

Anansi

‘Here is an article about fatherhood and a number of men take this opportunity to once again vilify women, whether mothers or not.’

I notice from your posting history that you are a relative newbie to OLO (and have made some good points). After a while, you’ll see (if you haven't already) that this behaviour is standard practice on OLO gender threads. To look on the positive side, however, these threads do provide a good reality check on what women are still up against.

Mog

‘Why don't we give as much attention to fathers' activities when parents are together…’

I just want to say that I thought the overall post this quote came in was excellent.

I too find it interesting that, in an essay supposedly about fatherhood, there was not a single mention of men’s increasingly long work hours, mounting career pressures, lack of paternity leave, decreasing parental quality time, low professional childcare standards and pay, or traditional pressures on women (rather than men) to be primary carers.

Instead, we got more of the usual rallying cry to ‘renew’ men's masculinity and despise fatherless households. Sad.

R0bert

‘... the "female paradise" part [of your argument] seems to suggest that you are trying to negate the idea that prime (or exclusive) care is something often sought by women and that it's not always about the childs best interests.’

‘Negate the idea’? No. That idea WAS my point. And to continue the same logic … The fact that so many women seek prime care is not always about the woman’s best interests either.

Fractelle:"I'm the one who wished she could've had more time with her daddy."

Which is why I didn't include you in my comment about the women who seem threatened by any effort to suggest fathers may be entitled to similar parental rights and obligations to mothers.

On the other hand, there have been a majority of women who have reacted very defensively to this article and even more so to the quoted references. The reaction seems excessive to me, given the topic, but there you go.

Fractelle:"you're confusing me with Col Rouge"

Never let it be said!. You're interesting to read, funny and rational.