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The Forum > Article Comments > Terrorists for prisoners > Comments

Terrorists for prisoners : Comments

By Danny Lamm, published 24/7/2008

Hezbollah and Israel, last week, exchanged the bodies of two kidnapped Israeli soldiers for a convicted terrorist and four others. Is this justice?

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PaulL
Another attempt at a re-write of history. The two Israeli soldiers were taken not by the an army of Lebanon but by a terrorist outfit called Hezbollah. Did you forget? Israel then attacked the soverign state of Lebanon and slaughtered innocents.

And by the way did you mention the hundreds of bodies returned to Hezbollah. How many of those were killed while in custody of the Israelis? How many were innocent bystanders? Do you have an ounce of sympathy for their families? Of course you don't because you've demonised them with your propaganda and lies for years. You are a disgrace Paul L.
Posted by keith, Friday, 25 July 2008 2:35:32 PM
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David JS,

You agree that you are the beneficiary of Aboriginal dispossession. That’s a good start.

But then you say >> “However, I do not demand that indigenous people live in separate enclaves. ... I do not clear them out of suburbs I may want to move to. I do not destroy their homes ... ”

What you are ignoring mate is that has all been done for you already. Aborigines in general accept their dispossession as fait acompli.

By your standards you are a complete hypocrite as I am sure you have no intention of giving your house and land back to its original owners. So you live on someone else land and pretend that somehow you are different. If an aboriginal group from your area came to your home and tried to evict you, you would set the police onto them. If they were violent the police would use the level of violence they deemed necessary to control the situation.

You say >> “. They have no right, as far as I'm concerned, to maintain a "Jewish state" anymore than Saudi Arabia should be an exclusively "Arab state". “

When you smart guys finish rearranging the dictatorial and theocratic Arab countries, and get them to accept non muslim rule, then we can work on loosening the communists grip on China and North Korea, and maybe then we can work on DEMOCRATIC Israel.

For years the PLO and Hamas, along with a handful of Arab neighbours, have been terrorizing Jews in their goal to crush the state of Israel. By allowing a majority of Arabs into Israel, they will achieve their aims without firing a shot. Once Arab groups have political power in Israel, that will be the end of Jews in the Middle East. In virtually every other country in the Middle East, Jews have been forced out, and there is no way anyone can guarantee the same thing won’t happen to the Israelis. It is only the fact that you just don't care what happens to Jews that allows you to even suggest this.
Posted by Paul.L, Friday, 25 July 2008 2:57:45 PM
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David,

If an aboriginal was firing rockets into Australian towns, wouldn't Australia use all means, including helicopters if necessary, to shoot him?

If the aboriginal population generally supported suicide bombers among them, which came and indiscriminately blew buses and schools in Australian cities, wouldn't Australia use all means to deter them, including if necessary destroying their homes?

If aboriginals were deliberately planning to multiply their numbers in Australia so they can "democratically" take over and alter our democratic, multi-cultural society into, say, a theocratic regime led by their elders, wouldn't Australia take all necessary steps to prevent it?

We are simply lucky and should be grateful that the aboriginals are not like the Arabs!
(whether it is for the reason mentioned by Paul or simply due to their peaceful nature)

Jews had their autonomy even under the Romans, as well as in their villages in Euorpe: a "state" is not a goal, just a means to allow them to maintain their very life as well as their Jewish life, but in the present Middle-East as we know it, nothing short of that can secure their lives, let alone their culture - they have been through the holocaust and are not fools to let it happen again.

Perhaps you are one of those that believe that everyone should blend with everyone, can live anywhere and do anything they like. I am interested to know how you will feel about it when it is your time to live in a retirement village, being old and frail, while your neighbours exercise their right to raise chickens in the yard, throw loud parties and start their motorbikes in the middle of the night.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 25 July 2008 3:28:15 PM
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Yuyutsu. It is not my intention to convince or gain your support for my views it is enough that you understand them. However the seed author’s intention was sheer propaganda.

My circumstances are irrelevant to the issue at hand. FTR I am not Anglo Saxon but of ‘reffo’ stock. However experiences have taught me to understand both sides’ positions.

It would appear that emotions are clouding your reasoning thus inhibiting perspective.

The British invasion of Australia is irrelevant if only that it happened 200 years ago. Was it right? No! What is important now is MUTUAL acceptance.
Conversely Israel’s creation about 60 years ago was in modern times. Its occupation and its on going appropriation of Arab land continue today.

Given the terrorist means in which the territory was ‘acquired’. (Read the history!) Clear title is still at issue, there are still Arabs alive today who have legitimate titles to land and property in Israel but are denied return. Ergo Children of trespassers are still trespassers.

All needless deaths are wrong even though in a conflict soldiers are a legitimate target but the issue must still be viewed in context.
Collateral damage (women and children) and indiscriminate mass punishment from Israeli incursions are far more common. In recent years even an international peace activists were targeted by the military. Yet despite film evidence Israel still claimed “self defence”.
In the 80’s Israel’s secret service ignored international law and a breached a western country’s sovereignty to execute the ‘wrong’ man. The above easily supports my charge of “the end justifies the means”.

Hamas’ extremism didn’t develop in a vacuum it was born of Zionist aggression and nurtured by continual belligerence on both sided.
Neither side is blameless but this obscenity has killed enough!
It can be argued that The Jewish occupation of ‘Israel’ or being a nation ALTHOUGH A REALITY can’t be supported in history, genetically or no moral grounds. Clearly both sides need to negotiate properly for a solution.
Zionism is simply Jewish (a religion) Nationalism. Dr Johnson wisely said “Patriotism (nationalism) is the last resort of a scoundrel “
Posted by examinator, Friday, 25 July 2008 3:48:48 PM
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Keith,

The country of Lebanon is run by Hezbollah, or hadn’t you noticed the recent coup? Or are you still pretending that Lebanon’s parliament is running the country? How naive.

Israel invaded Lebanon in an attempt to retrieve the two soldiers who were kidnapped, surely an entirely appropriate action, given the Lebanese Gov’ts clear inability to tell Hezbollah what to do. Hezbollah fighters used their people as shields and in the process civilians were killed. This is Hezbollahs fault.

Secondly, the dead Hezbollah returned during the swap were all killed, I imagine, in Israel, after they invaded that country. I don’t feel any more sorry for them than I feel for the Israelis who died in Lebanon during the war.

Goldwasser and Regev, were kidnapped in Israel, alive, and were handed back dead. You cannot be any more clearer about the differences between these two sides when you compare this action, with Israel’s treatment of Kuntar. Not only did Israeli police not kill him on the spot, Israel didn’t kill him after his trial either.

Hezbollah deliberately provoked the war with Israel because they wanted to fight. They knew their best chance was to fight on their own ground, so they did something they knew Israel could not ignore. If Israel hadn’t reacted in this manner, Hezbollah would've done something else.

Your support for terrorists makes you a disgrace. I, at least, am in line with my country, and my PM on this issue, where are you? Off with the dictators, theocrats and murderers. Not particularly surprising for a loony-lefter, although you don’t seem to understand that your kind of airy-fairy, lefty politics makes you an enemy of the people you support.

Us conservatives would survive a lot longer than you liberals under a gov’t of YOUR friends. I can grow my beard, pray to mecca and take an extra couple of wives. But feminists, union leaders, homosexuals, pornographers, atheists and all the other left issue activists would find themselves in a shallow grave or a prison cell if your mates ever attained power in the west. Think on that.
Posted by Paul.L, Friday, 25 July 2008 4:21:32 PM
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PaulL

Under the policies of the loony right wingers, like yourself, I seem to be able to recall on at least one occassion at least 6 million innocent souls perished in concentration camps.

I'm not conservative nor socialist, I am liberal. But I doubt you'd actually have the capability to understand the nuances.

Now don't you go thinking about Iran having the ability to target Israel with nuclear warheads. That would necessiate you having to face the removal of those illegal settlements and compromise on the right of return. Oh and you'd want to hope the Palestinians don't start demanding a return to the borders originally mandated by the UN.

Anything could be on the table now.

And watch those Americans ... they have no stomach for a nuclear conflict ... like every other sensible person in this world.
Posted by keith, Friday, 25 July 2008 6:11:58 PM
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