The main claims here seem to be there is a better system than cap-and-trade and our emissions cutbacks are futile in the face of China's increases. Firstly what is proposed for Australia combines successful elements of the European carbon scheme and the US sulphur dioxide scheme. If it fails it will be due to local political interference so let's give it a go first then iron out the bugs.

The 'Australia is just 1%' argument is wearing thin. We are among the highest per capita emitters and the world's biggest coal exporter. If we don't set an example China and India will be unrepentant. If and when Australia starts making meaningful cuts we will have the moral authority to do things like cutting coal exports to those countries or putting a carbon tariff on their manufactured goods. We are heading towards a cliff if we do nothing.

With Australia emitting a mere 1.4% of the world's carbon, the goody two shoes approach of the lobbyists and government will just cause Australians a lot of hardship to no avail as long as China and India and the rest of the world do nothing.

If we want to set an example, it should be to do something about reducing our population, and encouraging other contries to do the same.

It is pathetic to admit that Australia is the highest per capita polluter if we are going to continue increasing the population by 3 million every 3 years.

Taswegian,
I do not know what is the worse way to go.
The European system can hardly be called a sucess as its biggest result
is the enriching of the Russian Oligharcs and no countries reducing
by the target amounts.

There is another problem associated with the plans proposed for carbon
reduction. The plans as proposed by Prof Garnaut are expected to operate
in a continuing growth regime and takes no account of oil depletion.

The roughly quote Prof Garnaut "GW will cause the loss of the Barrier
Reef and the Tourism Industry in Nth Queensland".

Now GW might cause the loss of the Barrier Reef but by that time the
Tourism Industry in Nth Queensland will be long gone.
Prof Garnaut is apparently unaware that the airlines are already
cutting back on flights to Nth Queensland and that 24 IARTA airlines
closed down so far just this year.
There is significant risk that Qantas and Virgin will be
non-profitable in two years and bankrupt a few years later.
Just how accurate this is I am not certain but the CEO of Virgin said
that airline business plans fail at about $140 a barell oil.

We should not implement any GW plans unless energy powerdown is taken
into account and that clearly has not happened.

I keep seeing newspaper articles warning of the effects of global warming on the Australian economy and insisting that what is proposed is not enough.

If we cut our emissions by 90% by 2010 we will not even compensate for the growth in China's output. So in reality what we do will have b all effect without the major players getting involved.

The argument that we must set a good example valid but only to a point. Strangling our industry to a point where they move to China where there is no restriction is rewarding China for bad practise.

If anyone believes that the autocracy in China is going to pay serious attention to what Australia is doing then they should perhaps spend some time in Europe, China and North America, tune into the news and see how much coverage we get.

In the last 3 months I have spend a week in each of the above areas and having listened to the English news in each area, I did not once see any news report on Australia at all (with the exception of the rugby), let alone the furious discussion on climate change.

While I believe we need to start taking action now, but that going it alone benefits others at our expense, and us not at all.

reality can be cruel...and fact that anything and everything cost money...including 'carbon control'...and yes its a world wide problem requiring world government cooperation...good article here(just need to wait little to load)

shouldnt be too hard eg see how word 'climate change' now used by publications world-wide than 'global warming'...now how was that organized so quickly...see...

but it seems the hard reality still not struck lot of governments/refuse to acknowledge...including some politians like nsw treasurer costa http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23979406-601,00.html and using insults like 'chicken little'-language of bullys and manipulators, does not help...

but we have reached key point...which, when will it start biting the consumers...and it has with current fuel increase and effect on other costs, significant shift to public transport, and truckies strikes in lots of countries etc...now imagine by doubling fuel price, then ten times current...see what I mean...

we have to act...

since world cooperation will take time...lets set the pace on 'consumption of energy'...which in our control...yeah...us consumers...for if we reduce consumption...producers immediately have to produce less...effect of which...yep...same as carbon control...

and particularly transport, home energy use, and luxury items...imagine a home fully sustainable on solar/wind/water without need for monthly expenses of it...sound good huh...and yes its possible...just have to fight the current 'producers' who want the monthly payments...(best examply yet is homes buried with one foot above and roof high-tech ie solar-panels/water collection etc after 0.9m ground temp mostly stable to weather)...

couple of interesting facts...if no babies are born from today...all humans will vanish in 100years...so population control a quick effective 'future' solution...less population=less energy use...better that current 'over use' of energy leading to unsustainable population then crash with mass starvation due to unexpected weather change etc...

Sam
Ps~we really have to rethink how we live...

reality can be cruel...and fact that anything and everything cost money...including 'carbon control'...and yes its a world wide problem requiring world government cooperation...good article here(just need to wait little to load) http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Climate-Change-Expert-Duncan-Clarke-On-Tackling-Deforestation-And-Carbon-Emissions/Article/200807115023843?lpos=World%2BNews_3&lid=ARTICLE_15023843_Climate%2BChange%2BExpert%2BDuncan%2BClarke%2BOn%2BTackling%2BDeforestation%2BAnd%2BCarbon%2BEmissions%2B

shouldnt be too hard eg see how word 'climate change' now used by publications world-wide than 'global warming'...now how was that organized so quickly...see...

but it seems the hard reality still not struck lot of governments/refuse to acknowledge...including some politians like nsw treasurer costa http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23979406-601,00.html and using insults like 'chicken little'-language of bullys and manipulators, does not help...

but we have reached key point...which, when will it start biting the consumers...and it has with current fuel increase and effect on other costs, significant shift to public transport, and truckies strikes in lots of countries etc...now imagine by doubling fuel price, then ten times current...see what I mean...

we have to act...

since world cooperation will take time...lets set the pace on 'consumption of energy'...which in our control...yeah...us consumers...for if we reduce consumption...producers immediately have to produce less...effect of which...yep...same as carbon control...

and particularly transport, home energy use, and luxury items...imagine a home fully sustainable on solar/wind/water without need for monthly expenses of it...sound good huh...and yes its possible...just have to fight the current 'producers' who want the monthly payments...(best examply yet is homes buried with one foot above and roof high-tech ie solar-panels/water collection etc after 0.9m ground temp mostly stable to weather)...

couple of interesting facts...if no babies are born from today...all humans will vanish in 100years...so population control a quick effective 'future' solution...less population=less energy use...better that current 'over use' of energy leading to unsustainable population then crash with mass starvation due to unexpected weather change etc...

Sam
Ps~we really have to rethink how we live...