Keith, I am sorry but you seem to misread the situation dramatically. The idea of stateship, particularly one governed by Hamas, will mean the end of a LOT of Palestinians. It is very simple, did you see what happened in Lebanon? Did you see what happened where a non-State party managed to avoid paying the full price of its overtly hostile acts toward a State from within the boundaries of a neighbouring State?

They only did avoid the consequences by being a non-State party, if they had been a State, then Israel would have been entitled to use full-scale artillery preparation on occupied towns and villages instead of even attempting to use 'surgical strikes'. That would mean less casualties for Israeli forces, because in wars between States civilians move or die, nobody cares. What happened in Lebanon was restricted to a massive extent by the fact that the IDF had to minimize civilian casualties at the price of their own soldiers, when two States are at war, that does not happen (it is the difference between limited artillery for suppresive fire (10 to 100 rounds) and a full-scale bombardment 10,000 to 100,000 rounds).

It really is time to take the gloves off. Now Hamas & Fatah must restrain the terrorists or pay the price for that failure, no more soldier's have to die in Gaza or the West Bank trying to do so.

All in all, a very good move

PS I truly hope that in view of the latest Hizbollah action in Lebanon that the Lebanese cede control of southern Lebanon to Hizbollah as a separate State too. Then there is no need to identify targets, every suspected or even possible target can be pounded to dust prior to infantry or armour having to go near it.

Hopefully the current ceasefire will lead to a peace treaty, that would be nice (particularly from a legal standpoint). Nonetheless, the peace treaty with Egypt under Sadaat took care of the problem vis-a-vis ownership of Gaza and large chunks of Southern Israel.

The International Legal Principle is that the Right of Conquest requires at a minimum that land acquired by conquest be (1) completely subdued (until it is the occupation is deemed to be a military occupation only); and (2) under the control of the occupier; and (3) that the position be formalised by the concession by the former owner of that land to the new reality as evidenced by a peace treaty.

As Israel has long since normalised relations in this respect with Jordan, the position on the ownership of the 1948 boundaries barring Jerusalem is also beyond argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-Jordan_Treaty_of_Peace#Article_1:_Peace_established

The International Law on the subject means that such is sufficient to affect an irrevocable transfer of real property in the physical & effective possession of the conqueror from the vanquished to the conqueror. As this is an arrangement between States, UN Resolutions do not intrude and are irrelevant (the UN's charter does not allow it to intrude upon arrangements entered into between member States, particularly peace treaties).

http://tinyurl.com/4b2uzb

Israel is the only State with ANY legal entitlement to the land as Egypt asserted a legal entitlement to the entirety of the area:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.nsf/3822b5e39951876a85256b6e0058a478/a9e0fddcbef0de3085256e5300526dcd!OpenDocument

Which it ceded to Israel by virtue of its acceptance (Camp David) of a peace treaty with Israel in 1978/9

http://www.incore.ulst.ac.uk/services/cds/agreements/pdf/is14.pdf

So in response to moves toward a negotiated peace ... haganah bet gives me a lecture on how Israel is entitled to the Palestinians lands.

Mate you are a warmongering idiot. You don't want peace you want a genocide of Palestinians. Should Israel take ownership of all Palestinian land as you seem to think Israel is entitled won't the people living there become Israeli citizens? If not what do you think is going to happen to them?

Short sighted too. What happens when your precious little Israel is overrun by it's millions of neighbours. Will they have a right of conquest too?

Lebanon showed exactly how impotent are the Israeli military options. Wait till you see the impending disaster if the same incompetent military launch an unprovoked attack on Iran. If you think Iran won't defend it's sovergnity and not retaliate you are delusional.

Keith: "What happens when your precious little Israel is overrun by it's [sic] millions of neighbours. Will they have a right of conquest too?"

The Muslims already claim it, since "Palestine" was once conquered land (Dar al-Islam). Read the Hamas charter lately? Links to it have been posted on OLO lately.

Don't know if you caught a story on the ABC in the past few days, about a West Bank Australian Rules football team out here to play in a tournament. At least three were black Africans! Now we all know Israel has black immigrants, but the "Palestinians" claim to have been in "Palestine" since time immemorial, and none of them are immigrants (despite the fact Yasser Arafat was actually an Egyptian, but we're supposed to forget that). I wonder if these "black Palestinians" are hoping to exercise their "right of return" to um...Israel?

As far as I'm concerned, the Jews are welcome to their tiny plot of land. Muslim claims to that and the Jewish capital, Jerusalem, are spurious except by "right of conquest". If the Jews win back their land, why can it not be theirs by right of conquest?

keith

It is always good to support the underdog but have you got it right in this case?

You have not taken into account the Arabs who moved into that area after the Jewish settlers had improved greatly the land which they had bought, legally, at great cost, from the owners. You have ignored totally attacks by Arab fanatics on ancient Jewish communities, and subsequent pressures by fanatics to ethnically cleanse all ME lands of infidels such as yourself.

Logic,

Are you trying to suggest I have anything other than a thoroughly decent view of the abuse and wanton behaviour of Israeli's? Are you trying to suggest I have only a banal motive, ie of supporting an underdog, as a basis of my views?

Do you want me to cast aspersions about your motivation for supporting the genocidal and suicidal Israelis?

No I thought not! Please extend your usual respect, this type of exercise is beneath you and your abilities.

I'm for peace, aren't you? Are you cheering the latest moves to peace between Israel Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinians?

How about that agreement with Hamas? Astonishing!