So, logic, are you going to instantly dismiss everything those websites say out of hand? Yes, they campaign for Palestinian Arab rights, but that doesn't mean what they say isn't true. If it is untrue, then debunk the claims. Do the sites contain lies? Statements sourced out of context? Elisions of key facts? If they do, point it out.

To suggest that nothing they say can be trusted is akin to saying that nothing Australia Tibet Council says about the human rights situation in Tibet can be trusted, or nothing that Australians for Native Title & Reconciliation says about the human rights situation facing indigenous Australians can be trusted.

If you want criticism of Israel's treatment of its Palestinian Arab citizens by organisations that are not Palestinian Arab, here are some links:

Rabbis for Human Rights on Bedouin Israelis:
http://rhr.israel.net/bedouin-rights

New Israel Fund on Palestinian Arab Israelis:
www.nif.org/issue-areas/israeli-arabs/

Pax Christi International's report on Palestinian Arab Israelis:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2424.shtml

And here are some Human Rights Watch reports:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/03/31/isrlpa18387.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/05/18/isrlpa18387.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/israel2/JILPfinal.pdf

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/08/12/isrlpa9228.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/08/11/isrlpa9225.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/06/07/isrlpa4026.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/12/05/isrlpa3399.htm

Fungus,

Against aborigines
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/criminal_justice.htm
http://www.survival-international.org/news/98
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/845400.stm
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/Social_Justice/croc/sub2.htm
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/adb/ll_adb.nsf/pages/adb_et68

against migrants
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/australia/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jan1999/imm3-j26.shtml
http://www.agitprop.org.au/lefthistory/1994_fares_the_struggle_for_migrant_rights.php
http://www.greenleft.org.au/1995/173/12753
http://www.alphastandard.com.au/planetearth/un_committee_on_migrant_workers.htm

anti terror legislation
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/10/13/austra11863.htm
http://hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/australia/2005/

Here are a dozen Human Rights watch and other articles critical of Australia for discrimination against aborigines, migrants and anti-terror legislation. Does that make Australia a nation which “systematically discriminates” against its people?

If you look, you will find that the same type of articles can be found for every country on earth.

Israel enshrines protection of their arab/muslim citizens in law. Compare this with the situation in almost ANY other Middle Eastern country and you will see that Israel is a beacon of democracy and equality in that region. Not only are non muslims not protected under law in most Muslim countries in the middle east, they are actively discriminated against. To deny that Israel is vastly more open, democratic and fair than any of its neighbours is to deny the obvious and unassailable truth.

That Israel is not perfect is without question. But where is?

So, Paul.L, because other countries discriminate against certain people that makes it okay and acceptable for Israel to do so?

Yes, Israel's Palestinian Arab citizens are systematically discriminated against in Israel. And yes, it is completely unacceptable.

No Fungus,

It makes you a hypocrite for not dealing first and foremost, with the problems in your own country before looking about to criticise others.

Israel can at least say that lurking within the Arab community is an enemy that has not lost an opportunity to hurt Israel when the chance arose. Atrocities we can not comprehend, Israel faces regularly. What is our excuse?

Israel has much in common with the vast majority of liberal democracies across the Western world, and singling it out for attention, as you have done, is disproportionate and hypocritical.

In seeking to unmask Israel as the great Satan of the Middle East all you have done is show more clearly how much the West has in common with Israel. You have NO moral high ground upon which to stand.

I do not suggest Israel is perfect. Far from it. But it behooves us to consider the alternatives in the region, and in the rest of the western world, before making such a speedy judgement.

fungus

What it all says is that amongst the democratic countries there will always be some groups who will claim that they are discriminated against. It is very difficult, if not impossible to remove all sources of discontent, and some are structural within communities. Often the complainants themselves are unreasonable, and the Palestinians have been known to invent things in order to besmirch Israel.

Also the UN is very much a gerrymander with Islamic nations , many of them very small ganging up on Israel, which has only one vote.

What you can say is that Israel's HR record is amongst the better nations, while that of its chief and most vocal opponents (Iran, Syria Saudi Arabia etc) is amongst the worst.

Despite this the left single out Israel for criticism. Even gay groups carry mindless banners against Israel, which allows gay pride marches, and in favour of countries which kill gays. Stupid left wing women carry the banner against Israel which allows its Muslim women to obtain PhDs rather than against its opponents which deny women an education and proper human rights.

So, Paul.L, what you are saying is that I can't criticise Israel because of the plight of Aborigines and refugees in Australia? What rubbish. An Australian has every right to criticise Israel's human rights record, just like an Israeli has every right to criticise Australia's human rights reocrd. If a Russian criticises another country's human rights record, would you say to that person, "What about Russia's record in Chechnya?!" If an Indonesian criticises another country's human rights record, would you say to that person, "What about what Indonesia is doing in West Papua and Aceh?!" If a Turkish person criticses David Irving for denying the Nazi Holocaust, would you say to that person, "What about Turkey's denial of the Turkish genocide of Armenians?!"

Your implicaiton that I ignore and am apathetic about problems facing people in Australia is libellous. As a teenager I protested Pauline Hanson's visit to Adelaide (where I live), signed the Sorry book which is dedicated to the indigenous Australian Stolen Generation, and one time did charity collecting for Amnesty International. In my twenties I have attended rallies supporting the rights of refugees and for indigenous Australian rights and for indigenous/non-indigenous reconciliation, against the Iraq war and against Israel's actions in Lebanon and the Palestinian Territories. I have also done extensive voluntary work for The Salvation Army. Therefore, you owe me an apology.

Is that what you resort to when somebody criticises Israel? Libelling the person?

Also, the fact that Israeli citizens have it better than citizens of certain other countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Syria, neither negates nor mitigates Israel's human rights violations against its Gentile population. It's like saying that I shouldn't criticise somebody for committing an assault because somebody else committed a murder. They are both crimes. Some years ago I saw an interesting documentary film on television called "Scout's Honor". It was about the ban on homosexuals in the American Scouts and the controversy the ban has caused. Would you call the film-maker a hypocrite for not addressing the persecution of homosexuals in other countries in the film?