I am sure that Count Folke Bernadotte would have disagreed with the article right up to his old age, ah, that's right, he was assassinated in 1948 because he attempted to have a neutral stance on the issue.

This article is just another: 'a land without people waiting for a people without land' justification....

Maracas

>>” The fact that they believed they owned it by virtue of their presence is recognised today by legal opinions such as the Mabo decision and the Land Rights process”

What you have not acknowledged is that ownership is only granted over land which is not residentially occupied and there is further uncertainty over pastoral and mining leases. I think it is safe to assume that you aren’t going to give your backyard to the local descendants of the areas aborigines.

You are a hypocrite, or do you really believe, given your position on Israel, that you are not living on someone else’s land?

>>” Bear in mind that until the 1948 decision of the UN, there was no such Country as Israel”

Bear in mind that there was no country called Palestine either.

>>” If it wasn't for …the USA and their support …the matter would have been resolved by now.”

This is the most absurd nonsense. Do you think that Mig jets, AK47’s and t-54 tanks are Arab in origin? Who do you think armed the Arab armies? The Soviets poured in almost as much money as the Americans.

The Israelis didn’t have nukes until after the Six day war and have never threatened to use them so I wonder how it is you think they have made a difference? The only difference they have made is to prevent their neighbours from getting the idea that they could wipe out Israel at no cost to themselves. Indeed only recently Iran paraded their new shahab3 missiles draped in a banner reading “wipe Israel off the map”. The Shahab 3 is nuclear ready and can reach most of Western Europe and all of Israel

The matter would have been resolved? What you really mean is that all Jews would have been driven out of the Middle East.

I challenge you to read the Hamas charter. They call for no treaty/peace with the Jews and push for the total expulsion of all Jews from the Middle East. They believe that the Koran demands this of them as a sacred duty.

Fungus,

Palestine facts reports that the details were not disclosed formally, but according to media reports Barak's offer included:

• Israeli redeployment from 95% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip
• The creation of a Palestinian state in the areas of Israeli withdrawal
• The removal of isolated settlements and transfer of the land to Palestinian control
• Other Israeli land exchanged for West Bank settlements remaining under Israeli control
• Palestinian control over East Jerusalem, including most of the Old City

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_campdavid_2000.php
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=8212
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/7/Trilateral%20Statement%20on%20the%20Middle%20East%20Peace%20Summ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

The Palestinians didn’t produce a counter offer. Their response was to launch the intifada, murdering men, women and children in restaurants and school buses by the hundreds.

The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to Yasser Arafat, as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the series of Palestinian riots that began shortly after the summit. Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by, a former minister in the Palestinian Authority. Clinton wrote that Arafat once complimented Clinton by telling him, "You are a great man." Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

Alan Dershowitz said that the failure of the negotiations was due to "the refusal of the Palestinians and Arafat to give up the right of return. That was the sticking point. It wasn't Jerusalem. It wasn't borders. It was the right of return. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

Barak offered Arafat 91% of the West Bank, and all the Gaza Strip, with Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state; in addition, all refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund. But before any gradual Israeli withdrawal, all Palestinian terrorist infrastructures must be dismantled. Arafat, however, refused. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

All but a couple of the very large (30,000+ people) settlements would have been dismantled and a one for one land swap of unoccupied Israeli land in compensation for these remaining settlements was an option.

Paul L

I said what I mean in my post.....Not what you think I meant.
I understand Land Rights. It was never about claiming anyones freehold land , residential or otherwise. It was about VACANT CROWN LAND.
Go back and read my post again and do try to comprehend what I said. Don't put your own interpretation on it. I never intimated driving out the jews. read my last line.

Your post was another zionist spin trying to defend the indefensible. As I said in my final sentence; the issue will be resolved by the Jews and Arabs WHO LIVE THERE.

The future of any democracy there relies on the establishment of a secular state with equal rights of Jews and Arabs.

The more a position is defended the less credible it appears and so it is with this cherry-picking effort. With any luck it'll get around a hundred responses.

Oh I DO wish someone would address the issue of the occupied territories.

FACTS... are annoying, when the disprove our own sentimentally held positions....

<<It was the Zionist terrorist organisations, such as Irgun Zvai Leumi, the Stern Gang and Haganah, who committed massacres and rapes of Palestinian Arabs that are responsible for the Palestinian Arab refugee exodus.>> FUNGUS.

But Fungy...

HEBRON MASSACRE of Jews by Arabs in 1929

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron29.html

<<For some time, the 800 Jews in Hebron lived in peace with their tens of thousands of Arab neighbors. But on the night of August 23, 1929, the tension simmering within this cauldron of nationalities bubbled over, and for 3 days, Hebron turned into a city of terror and murder. By the time the massacres ended, 67 Jews lay dead and the survivors were relocated to Jerusalem, leaving Hebron barren of Jews for the first time in hundreds of years.>>

'balance' old son.

I honestly don't think either side can claim 'squeaky clean' or even mildly so, on a human level. They all share a fallen nature with us.

So, I don't see how we are in any way qualified to judge Israel when we ourselves live on 'stolen land'

Does this occur to Mac, Fungus and others?

If not..why not?

I'm absolutely certain that our efforts here will totally change the situation and bring in 'World Peace' within the next 10 minutes, but then, again..maybe I'm a dreamer :)

I guess it makes us feel better 'batting' for whoever we feel is the underdog... so maybe our efforts here are selfish?