CJ.. Saudi Arabia is one

In spite of all that.. there are those (many of them) who regard SA as in spiritual decline, a state of apostasy, and unIslamic. In fact..the 'real deal' awaits the present 'corrupt worldly' regime to be removed and the 'true' Muslims installed.

Well.. without offering any opinion on those well documented facts, (you can draw your own conclusions) it does underline what the author was saying.

As for you? well.. the truth of the condition described "not fully embraced their faith" applies also, but in your case, by your own words, you don't recognize any need for that. Isn't freedom wonderful?:)

Not only do you get to be an unbeliever you can also call folks like myself "Insufferable godbotherers".. without total impunity and safety.

Q & A.. In the proclamation of Salvation since the advent of Christ, where the Grace of God is made known to all mankind irrespective of race, tribe or culture, the most you will encounter is an invitation and persuasion. Anything more would be out of character with the Gospel itself and the Lord Himself.

"I pray not only for these, but for those who will believe because of their word" said Jesus.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

The Lord said nothing about "Subdue them and if they don't believe in me...tax them"..but the founder of another 'great world religion' did.

Viking, on the contrary … stamus contra malum.
Look deeper. I was not focussing on theocracy or theocratic states as such but rather God (creator, enlightenment, higher knowing, mother nature, energy force, Mr X, etc), religions and by implication … churches and religious hierarchy. If one believes that everything is of God (and I am not saying I don’t) then in the context of humanity and its concomitant societies, we are as one in God … regardless of religion. Having said this, I believe that it is ‘Man’ in general but the ‘Religious hierarchy’ in particular that have failed God. They have done this by wielding power and control over the masses through misinterpretation and distortion of God’s message, be it through the Old or New Testaments, the Koran, whatever.

David
“The most you will encounter is an invitation and persuasion. Anything more would be out of character with the Gospel itself and the Lord Himself.”
I agree entirely. However, what I have serious misgivings about (and consequently question the motives of the purveyors) is when the Zealots, fanatics or religious fundamentalists say I will go to purgatory, be damned to Hell or be smitten if I don’t listen to their message. This I would argue is out of God’s character.

CJ Morgan- ANY discussion of Islamic issues appears to be Islamophobia, to you. This word is bandied about by Muslims and "useful dhimmis" alike, to stifle debate. Since Christianity and other religions are open to ridicule and discussion, why should Islam be excepted?

Those Islamic nations which base their law on sharia are theocracies, to varying extents. The frontrunner would be Iran (despite its claim to be a "democracy" the mullahs have a strong say in who can stand for election). Saudi Arabia, despite its claim to being a "kingdom", has an all-powerful clergy. Turkey, Algeria and Tunisia are clearly not theocracies despite utilising elements of sharia law.

Whether you agree with this is, is of no import to me. This site is about opinion.

CJ,

I wonder if you can post on an issue without using the term islamophobe half a dozen times? Is everyone who finds fundamentalist Islam distasteful an Islamophobe? Does that make you a Chritianaphobe?

I think i've risen to your challenge to stop the insults and the name calling. Perhaps you could try it yourself.

Iran and Saudi Arabia are two theocracies that I can think of straight up. You might mistakenly believe that Saudi is a monarchy, however in all matters pertaining to society and morality, Saudi is a theocracy. Afghanistan was a theocracy until we overthrew the Taliban.

I think that any country where the religious police have more power than the real police is a theocracy in practice. Whats your definition?

Paul... 'Christophobia' is alive and well on OLO.. trust me :)

Pericles, CJ, Ginx, and various others very phobic about anyone Christian.

In fact..this Christianaphobia is tainting all Christians.. even though the 'gang' seems to think they are criticizing just the 'religious nutters' like me. Why don't they realize that they are tarring ALL Christians with the ssame brush and inciting hatred and loathing against even he mildest of us.

Does this last para sound a bit wierd? :) of course it does, because it shows just how irrational criticizing those who criticize intolerance really are.
Then we get this verbal frenzy akin to one of Loony Tunes cartoons where the big bulldog is ripping poor old Sylvester the cat to shreds.....and they go round and round with bits of fur flying out in every direction.

Never mind.

Q & A.. you have a point. I was at this country town coffee shop and the local 'believers' team had put "REJOICE IN HEAVEN..BURNNN IN HELL"
on a sign on the wall. I really thought that would turn everyone off to the nth degree. But.. at the end of the night, after a hyper-cringeworthy stuffing up of the 'devotional talk' which was meant to lead into inviting hearers to Christ.. (when faithless me thought "that's it..they'll all go home" a veritable LEGION of yr 12 students went forward trembling to receive Christ. (they happened to be the brightest and best of the region too)

Sometimes we can be like Moses, who when instructed by God "touch" the stone and water will come out.. BEAT IT many times with his stick while ranting and raving abuse at the Israelites. (for which God punished him too)

A gentle and persuasive word is how the Lord taught. Look to Him, not his only partially sanctified followers.

I agree that Saudi Arabia and Iran may be properly classified as theocracies. However, it's also clear that the vast majority of predominantly Muslim nations are not theocratic - notably Turkey, in today's news. Of course, this is part of Dhume's point.

Point taken about the 'Islamophobes' jibe Paul, but the fact is any discussion about Islam at OLO rapidly becomes swamped by comments that are clearly Islamophobic in nature. The term "Islamophobia" is highly specific in meaning, unlike the general nature of your use of "soft left" (whatever that means).

Re "Chritianaphobe" (or is it "Christophobia"), I haven't written anything at all here about Christianity nor Christians. I don't have any problems at all with ordinary Christians - it's only when they try to impose their religious values on me and other non-Christians that I object to them. I would feel exactly the same about Muslims, Buddhists, Jews etc, except they never presume to try and proselytise the way Christian godbotherers do.

If a certifiable frootloop like Boazy wants to hide his irrational fear and hatred of Islam behind his own God delusion, that's fine by me. But it's hardly "Christophobic" to point out when some idiot who happens to be a Christian fundy is repeatedly spouting hateful Islamophobic claptrap all over this forum.