Phil,

I do not how you are suggesting that anyone here is denying that Israel exists; that is a rather bizarre comment on your part. Also, your assumption of anti-Zionism is quite misplaced. As you should know Zionism also includes those who support a Jewish homeland in Palestine, not just those want to impose a Jewish state on others. Further, criticising Israeli colonialism in no way suggests that Jews are inherently evil. It is quite despicable that you could even make such an implication. Contrary to your claim, we are well aware of the historical reasons for the creation of Israel. As Lowenstein and Shaik correctly pointed out in the OLO article published alongside yours:

'To realise the dream, he insisted, the Jews must be willing to seize the reigns of history by renouncing the classical Jewish tradition of pacifism and collaborating with European anti-Semites who supported the Zionist movement as a means of ridding Europe of its "Jewish problem".'

More so, nobody has claimed that Palestinians are entirely blameless in the conflict, but they are certainly the people who have had their land taken off them, who have had suffered illegal occupations and invasions and who suffer the daily indignity of hafrada. Where do you get these claims from? It would be greatly preferable that if you going to make accusations about a group of people that you at least reference them accurately.

I have read your article in New Matilda (http://www.newmatilda.com/2008/03/04/one-state-no-solution). You make particularly gross (and surprising) generalisations that the "overwhelming majority" of Jews in Israel are somehow incapable of living in an Israel/Palestine where they are no longer are a numerical majority with special political authority. Further you claim that Jewish Israelis are incapable of living alongside non-Jewish Palestinians due to past conflicts. It begs the question on how the Afrikaans have managed so well; are they really less prone to ethnic chauvinism than Israeli Jews?

Israel's days are numbered. An overwhelming weight of numbers, Palestinian numbers, will see an over-running of the Jewish state. No amount of US funding nor nuclear weapons can prevent the onslaught.

Seeking a just peace, returning lands stolen after '67 and fair recompense for those and the families of those dispossed in '48 might stall the over-run but nothing can stop Israeli Palestinians from eventually out-numbering Israeli Jews.

So ... if Israel truely has 'the democratic tradition shared by Australia and ... as reflected in a common commitment to civil and human rights and cultural diversity, ...' then the Australian Government might, in future, be dealing with a Palestinian Israeli government ... instead of a Jewish one ... but then again pigs might fly eh?

Philip:
I have had Jewish friends all of my life. A fair percentage of whom back in the 60's gave their two years to Israel,. You ought to hear the views of some of them on the behaviour of the Israelis.
There was a time when my sympathies lay with the Israelis, but like a kid who trades too long on fact that they were ‘cute’, the continual whinge from the Israelis that they are the victims wears thin. Like attitudes to their supporter and mainstay, the US, not too many believe the crap they dish out, anymore.
For the rest, reality eventually overrides bigotry, religious fanaticisms and such.
Faced with a major issue, such as the Israelis are facing it is smart to negotiate while you have room to manoeuver rather than tough it out until the choice is flee or die.
Note that the use of Jew and Jewish as opposed to Israeli/Israelis is both intentional and deliberate.

Dear_Lev

I am encouraged by your rather well thought out response to my 'enthusiastic' last post:)

1/ PROTO PALESTINIANS... indeed ie.. "Philistines". They were the enemies of Israel then, and they are now, nothing has changed.

<<the Philistines were an immigrant culture which appeared in the Levant at the beginning of the Iron Age I period (c.a. 1200, B.C.) The Bible first mentions this culture in Genesis 10:14, stating that the Philistines came from “Caphtorim,” which scholars now believe to be the island of Crete or another island in the Aegean>>

I'd replace the word 'Immigant' with 'INVADER'.. they established a beach head at Gaza, and developed further coastal cities at Ashkelon,Ashdod and Ekron.

The fact of the existence of those cities today, should give 'bible skeptics' a very serious SHAKE about it's historicity.
So, there is nothing 'indigenous' about the few Palestinians who might remotely be able to trace ancestry back to them. The ebb and flow of history since has been such that the likelihood is extremely remote.
I re-affirm that most of them are more likely resulting from Arab Muslim colonialism after conquest, in the same way that the Janjaweed' forces in Sudan are described as 'Arab'.....

2/ CONNECTION BETWEEN ISRAEL of AD70 and THOSE RETURNING.
Not relevant. Mainly because in the days of Israel, a non Isrealite could become one by conversion. Even Jewish blood, of Christ himself has been mixed. One of Jesus ancestors was a Moabite.(Ruth) another was Rahab,a Canaanite.
Now..I CAN however assure you, that geneticists have no trouble identifying everyone with YOUR name. "Levi, Lewi etc and COHEN" as biological descendants of Aaron brother of Moses and/or the Jewish tribe of Levi. They are the only 2 names which have remained.

CONCLUSION. My other point would be, that aside from any of those issues, ANY group of people, has as much 'right' (or non right) to a chunk of land that they can carve out by the use of power. This debate always forgets that, and the Arabs/Muslims invaded, now the Jews have. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

I find it glaringly obvious that there is a real hatred for Israel and the Israelis among the left. That they would first attempt to destroy the single, democratic, state for Jews, before the dozens of racist, theocratic or dictatorial Muslim countries; indicates that bigotry and racism is OK if it’s against Jews.

The one state solution is a fantasy land for the ideologically challenged leftists. It just isn’t going to happen. Israel has the legitimacy of both The League of Nations and the UN. It’s people are fully prepared to fight for their existence and reasonably believe that their lives and livelihoods are at stake. There is much support within Israel and globally for a two-state solution. This solution, as long as it is fair to the Palestinians, is the best chance of peace.

The one-state supporters should be aware that it is also the preferred solution of Hamas. No matter what your opinion is of Hamas (eg Lev) you will have no influence over their behavior once they get this one state. Your UN resolutions will be worthless.

Petere,

There is no way Israel will be militarily defeated without nuclear weapons. That’s a fact. The three major wars of the last century have shown us that. You are a bigot and I take solace in the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Passy,

I was laughing my ass off when I read your post complaining about being called a “far leftist”. Don’t tell me, you’re really a centrist?

Lev

You say >>” However, such as country is only possible if people give up both their sectional interests… . Whoever supports such a proposition will receive the support of "the left".

Just for starters what good is the support of the left? Can it prevent violence or genocide? No absolutely and categorically not. The support of the left is irrelevant except as an empty feel good gesture.

Islamic extremism has a life of its own, outside of any supposed oppression by the west. It won’t go away just because Israel surrenders its state.

Why do we have to continue on endlessly talking about Israel and Palestine?

There are 198 other more worthy nations on the planet that we could surely dedicate some time to.

I suggest the zionist pap just be silenced. It is all lies and propoganda denied by most jews around the world.

Now let's ask this question. If being jewish is so damn wonderful why are there so few still? And if Israel is so wonderful why do only 40% of the 14 million jews want to live there?