Yabby wrote: "... show me where I said that manufacturing exports were a significant part of the Australian economy ..."

This argument began when you disputed my statement "In these circumstances, the hope that Australia can ever profitably manufacture any products other than a few specialised niche or boutique products, unless Australian workers are prepared to work for Third World wage levels, is a pipe dream."

You continued: "Funny that Switzerland, Germany, Japan etc, all have very healthy manufacturing industries, none pay third world wages. I once saw a documentary on the Korean shipbuilding industry. No slave wages paid, again it is booming."

The implication that I drew is that Australia could have a large manufacturing sector and pay its workers well without protective tariffs.

Yabby, are you now saying that you no longer dispute what I wrote?

No Daggett, what I am saying is that I don’t think that the future of Australian
manufacturing lies in making consumer products that compete on price in your
Harvey Norman catalogues. Tariffs won’t create that either.

Manufacturing will play second fiddle to mining, as mining is where the money is,
so they get first choice, when it comes to employees.

http://business.smh.com.au/need-for-coal-fuels-spending-in-hunter/20080418-2740.html

Alone on that one announcement, you are talking 24’000 jobs. Those sorts of
announcements are appearing regularly around Australia. In SA you have a huge
Roxby Downs expansion, in Queensland its coal, in WA its everything, then
various projects in the NT. All those developments not only employ people directly,
but create a demand for all sorts of specialised equipment and services and supplies,
to meet their needs. Manufacturing all those things, where prices is not the driving
factor, is where Australian manufacturing is heading more and more.

Coal has now hit 300$ a tonnes and gas has gone up 10 times in price. In Qld you
have large coal seam gas developments, again lots of specialised equipment.

Farming, being a primary resource driver, has a similar effect, it just doesn’t have
the money that mining has. I know a bloke who makes silos for instance. His
production for the next year is sold out, the Chinese are not about to compete with
him and never will, due to comparative advantage. Once again of course, he
can’t find more staff, they aren’t out there.

When all this profitable manufacturing is available, why should Australia try
to compete with others making cheap consumer goods?

Yabby,

You are exhibiting the same thoughtless uncaring attitude that was displayed by those who in the 1980's treated Britain's North Sea gas and oil reserves as if they were an unlimited resource. Now the production of North Sea Oil is declining at the rate of 6% per year (as I seem to recall) and The UK has no long term secure source of energy. Australia's coal is also a finite resource and it will be exhausted sooner than may of us are expecting if we continue to allow it to be exported at an exponentially increasing rate.

If some sectors of the economy, including, as you argue, some niche manufacturing enterprises (which you now seem to agree are not greatly significant to our economy in the overall scheme of things), don't have the necessary workers and are suffering as a consequence, then the Government should not have allowed this situation to develop in the first place. They should have simply acted to slow down the rate of extraction of our mineral resources and housing development at least until the needs of the industries could have been met without harming other sectors of our economy, or they should have properly funded training.

To instead demand that the problem be solved only by the importation of more workers without regard to the other adverse environmental, social and economic consequences is reckless and irresponsible.

It would do no harm to future generations or to the planet's atmosphere to instead simply leave some of our mineral wealth in the ground for the time being.

Daggett

Well said. With you all the way.

Yabby

You don't care a toss for the children included in the 54% of Australians whose income is now so low that they cannot afford adequate nutrition to maintain health; a situation that will worsen with imported workers.

Nor do you care about the millions of Australians whose teeth cannot be treated because they do not have the money to pay the over-charging dentists, and who will die an early death from heart failure.

You just don't want to think about the hundreds of thousands of Aussies who will die because they cannot access proper medical care.

None of this happened before your insane free market genocide.

You are definitely among the most dispicable human beings I have encountered and, one day when we have restored our nation to democracy, egalitarian prosperity and justice, I will move heaven and earth to have people like you tracked down and stand trial; and by courts that represent the values of the people.

No thoughtless attitude at all Daggett. Britain flogged a lot of it’s oil off for 10$,
very different situation to Australia today. On the back of the China/India growth
story, we are seeing huge prices increases for resources, it makes perfect sense to
sell a few more of them. Last time I looked Australia had something like 76 billion
tonnes of coal, so we are not about to run out in 20 years. Roxby Downs has uranium
that they did not even know about, until they started active drilling when BHP took
over. The coal seam gas is a resource we did not even know was tappable until
recently. To not develop these projects a bit further, whilst the world is screaming for
energy, would be quite foolish. I remind you that if somebody through clever
technology, comes up with the holy grail of energy, they would well be near worthless. That’s exactly why the Govt flogged off Telstra. They were well aware
that as things move more and more to wireless, those copper wires could well be
worth very little. New technology can bite you in the bum, when you least expect it.

Specialised manufacturing is highly significant in a diversified economy, as all the cogs of the economy works together. Why you insist that we should make Australian
toasters etc and charge consumers a fortune for them, when we can buy them
dirt cheap elsewhere, totally beats me.

Our big problem today is that Aussies have had it too good for too long and many
have lost the work ethic. Many would rather frolic by the seaside, then put in a days
work in an industrial situation. If the job is not a few minutes from home, they
are frankly not interested and don’t need to be, as we pamper them. It is pointless
retraining people who have no aptitude or will to work. For those that do, there
is heaps of work for good money.

Tony, don’t blame me if some people spend their baby bonuses and many other social security benefits on the pokies, etc.

Yabby wrote, "it makes perfect sense to sell a few more of them"

It only makes 'perfect sense' to a person who cares nothing for the environment or for future generations. You shown elsewhere both that you are actually aware of the envionmental consequences of the growth of the economies of India and China, but that you don't care. So, instead of trying to stop the rape of this planet, you devote your days on forums such as these to denigrating and insulting those of us who do care enough to try to do something about it. Presumably you are gaining in some way from these appalling circumstances and are unconcerned that others further down the track will have to pay the cost.

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Yabby wrote, "Specialised manufacturing is highly significant in a diversified economy, as all the cogs of the economy works together."

An economy based largely on mining and housing development with only a tiny manufacturing sector is not what I consider 'diversified'.

Yabby wrote, "Last time I looked Australia had something like 76 billion tonnes of coal, so we are not about to run out in 20 years."

Well, I suggest that you give this issue just a little bit more careful thought. According to page 275 of the Final Energy Crisis(2005 - second edition due in September) edited by Newman (http://candobetter.org/sheila) and McKillop, all the world's coal reserves will be exhausted by 2150 if we simply extract coal at the current rate. If we Increase the rate moderately each year it could all be gone by 2080, if we increase the rate rapidly as we may need to do if we have to make up for the shortfall in petroleum production, it may be all be used up by 2062. And we have to take into account the fact that and that is based upon estimates that may have been optimistic.

So, coal is hardly the limitless resource that Yabby would have us believe it is, but he is clearly unconcerned by what is likely to happen more than 20 years down the track.