A very quick reply to RubySoho's post of Friday, 11 April 2008 4:41:53 PM.

The Malaysian survey was mentioned in an article that Greg Sheridan wrote for The Weekend Australian of January 20th, 2007 ("Hate beyond reason"). It was a joint Asia-Europe Institute and University of Malaya survey of Malay Muslim opinion in Malaysia and I can only presume it was a recent survey given the way Sheridan referred to it in his article.

Anyway, I doubt if the Iraq war would have had any great effect on the opinion of Malay Muslims toward Australia as opposed to ten years ago. Mainly because if you knew anything about Malaysian history and politics Ruby, you would be aware of the scapegoating of Australia that was carried out by the former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad during his 22 years in office and especially in the period after 1986. Obviously as this survey showed, this low opinion of Australia had rubbed off onto the Malay Muslim population who were Mahathir's political constituency.

If you want to know more about Mahathir Mohamad, might I suggest that you read Tony Parkinson's article that appeared in The Age of October 18, 2003 ("Mahathir's outburst poisons atmosphere at time of crisis"). The URL is http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/10/17/1066364486663.html

This is just further evidence of the creepy growing alliance between the far Left and Islamofascism. And from a woman too!

She should be ashamed of herself.

Ruby Soho

"How many times can I say that I believe terrorism has more to do with politics than it does with religion?"

This reveals a remarkably naive understanding of Islam. Islam was born as a political ideology; indeed it is innately imperial and does not recognise the difference between the public/political and private/religious spheres.

Your review of this issue shows you need to learn about Islam, before you start defending it against western liberalism

Hello again Paul,

When I said “Thanks for pointing out that this is indeed a matter of cause and effect”, what I meant was that my statements referring to Western involvement in Israel and Iraq being a root cause of Muslim terrorism were not intended as a justification of terrorism, simply as A causing B. Paul, I view terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism as two separate issues which often overlap and intertwine. Yes, I do believe that 9/11 was revenge on US involvement in Israel and I have already provided statements from the 9/11 Commission to back that up. That does not mean that I approve of those attacks. And as for issues such as the riots over those cartoons and death threats to detractors, unfortunately, that comes down to the fact that Islam, as a younger and altogether more petulant religion, is not yet willing to accept criticism. These are two separate phenomena which need to be dealt with differently. The more we point the finger at all Muslims the uglier this is going to get.

I'm curious as to what you want from moderate Muslims though. An apology every time an extremist detonates a roadside bomb? Moderate Muslims are no more responsible for that bomb going off than you are.

I love the reductionism of some people (and must admit I am prone to it too.)

Islam inexorably leads to Bin Laden. Then Islam is Bin laden.

Marx inevitably leads to Stalin. Then Stalin is Marxism.

Its like saying Christianity inexorably leads to Ian Paisley, or the Inquisition, or polygamist Mormonism or whatever enemy you want to put in. So that enemy then becomes the generalisation of the original thought.

Or maybe it's like saying Adam Smith leads to Adolf Hitler.

All philosophies represent present class relationships in some form or particular.

That is why it is false to say Islamism is islamofascism. Certainly some versions of Islamism are a middle class movement, and some clearly, for example in Saudi Arabia, represent a ruling class perspective.

Certainly fascism was and is a middle class movement - stuck as the middle class IS between the big battalions of capital and labour. That is why politically it is all over the place. (And why the Pauline Hanson movement, a middle class movement, contained within it the seed of fascism). But historically as the economic crisis worsens the ruling class turns to the thugs of fascism to smash the working class and its political and union organisations so it can drive down wages and conditions and restore profit rates. Thus fascism is a middle class movement that becomes the battering ram for th ruling class against the working class.

That is not the case with Islamism. Since I only have 350 words, I'll save this for an article.

Ruby, It isn’t clear to me that Wilders was intending to make a “movie” or a “documentary”, so the absence of balance and character development don’t seem to me to be fatal.

Perhaps he’s just issuing a warning. The warning is probably intended to heighten awareness. This risks creating fear, but it doesn’t follow that it is intended to create hatred. Perhaps some fear is an appropriate response.

The warning is necessary, isn’t it? Hasn’t it become evident by now that liberalism – which I usually support – is very naïve and vulnerable, and just isn’t coping with Islam.

I don’t see the warning as a call to arms, and I think you make a great logical leap in saying that it is.

The one thing about the film (which I haven’t seen, I’m just relying on your description) I disagree with is its inclusion of the cartoons. They are not a part of the responsible use of free speech: they are a gratuitous provocation. Stupid on
Wilders’ part. Still, he should be able to include them and continue to live in his home.

Another leap you make, Ruby, is this: You start by saying that it’s not just a religious issue but also a political one. Okay, maybe that’s true. ("Maybe": Paul L’s first post suggests otherwise.) You end up saying that the religion of Islam is just being used as a tool, as though it has nothing to do with the strife that seems to follow it everywhere. Quite an athletic leap.

This is what makes you seem like a Muslim apologist, even though I suspect you are not.

Non-Muslims and Muslims need to get on better, if at all possible, simply because people should get on better. We non-Muslims should, I believe, be gracious to Muslims that are within reach of us. But, this doesn’t mean we should fool ourselves and be unrealistic. The warning introduces some necessary realism into the liberal mind.

Pax,