Enjoyed reading this article and the responses.

Somehow it just doesnt fit with what one also reads over a longer period from;

http://jihadwatch.org/

for example.

Only the muslims themselves can fix up there crazy religion and bring it up to par with post enlightenment standards. Obviously I dont think much of any of them.

In the mean time the probabilty that they are collectively going to accept that their prescious book cannot possibly be the immutable word of anyone,is highly unlikely.

It isnt immutable because it has a history, and didnt come into its final form until many years after the prophets death, and much of the early pieces were written in aramaic, a jewish language, and cobbled into its fnal from by his henchmen and successors,some of whom were not even there.

All this critical exmination if the origins has been gone over in ad nauseun with the Bible, and it has still survived,so what are they frightened of with the koran. Therein lies the nub issue-IMO.

Therefore taking out,or re interpreting the violent pieces as Fitna is suggesting in not going to happen either.

"I agree that Islam is screaming out for a reformation. Turkey has already announced it is reviewing the Qu’ran for this purpose."

Not true, Ruby. The Turks are reviewing certain hadith, in which are some very strange pronouncements (even by Islamic standards). Surely you realise the difference between Quran, hadith and sunna?

"Also, thanks for bringing how Muslims seem to have have replaced Jews as scapegoat. It’s actually the focus of an article I am currently writing."

Surely you jest? A scapegoat is: "One that is made to bear the blame of others" and in the sense you suggest, Jews are still blamed for all the ills of the world, especially in the Middle East. The Jews did nothing to deserve their plight up to and including WWII.

While Israel's response to attacks on its lands and people may be perceived as (and may actually be) disproportionate, this does not affect anyone in New York, Bali, Thailand, Madrid, London, Darfur or any the other countless troublespots where Muslims kill, maim, forcibly convert, or dispossess hundreds of people on a daily basis.

Should Muslims in Australia be "scapegoated" for the actions of Muslims elsewhere? They wouldn't be- if they and other Muslims came out and expressly condemned terrorism anywhere. They do not do this, in fact we see and hear Muslims the world over overtly or tacitly supporting the actions of terrorists and spreading hatred for Jews.

The description of Geert Wilders as "far right" is disingenuous. Wilders is a populist anti-immigration campaigner, who is trying to stand up for the rights of native Dutch people. The conundrum of the "far right" descriptor, which would equate in the minds of many to "Fascist",would be plain if people realised that Wilders produced his film to expose Fascist passages in the Quran. Wilders is no more "fascist" than Winston Churchill (who it appears, given recent surveys in the UK, is relegated to the position of a "fictional historic figure" in the minds of many, while large numbers of people, even in the west, believe the "Protocols of Zion" are factual!).

BOAZ -

"BIAS.
"of over 600,000 Muslim Iraqi children... due to the sanctions"

More a statement of FACT than Bias. How can you put a positive spin on those numbers and say it was a good thing?

and

"BALANCE .... Saddaam was continuing to build his palaces, and re-stock his armaments.He COULD have used the money for medicines."

It was some of the basic ingredients to manufacture the actual medicines that were banned by the sanctions, not just a matter of misspent cash. (Maybe AWB should have been more generous).

As for historical figures mentioned by others elsewhere, Stalin was actually a Seminary student for a year before he found his political niche. He could actually have become been a priest if it wasn't for the attitude of some of his teachers who inflamed his Georgian patriotism.

Churchill was infuriated when he was not allowed to bomb the Afghans and Kurds (who he regarded as savages) with poison gas from the newly founded WW1 airforce - only because the government felt it may upset the Indian colony - not to mention his ideas on using the navy to fire on striking workers years later. I think that qualifies as a fascist attitude.

So who are the trouble-makers here? Those (like Wilders) who deliberately inflame a hostile situation to provoke a violent response, or those who stupidly take the bait and react the way somebody else intended them to?
Maybe it's somebody else pulling all the strings. No doubt there are provocateurs acting for both sides to keep the show on the road for as long as it's needed.

Meanwhile, as Ernie Cline once said - "dance monkeys, dance".

Hi Ruby, I just saw your fantastic article. Glad to see some sanity in the madhouse :) of Islam discussions on OLO.

I don’t have the time right now to read the comments so I’ll tell you, in brief, my thoughts about Fitna so far.

I agree that as a film, it’s not a good one. At least Submission has some creative merit IMO. Theo van Gogh was a talented moviemaker while Wilders just makes propaganda.

Fitna is barely more than a collection of clips that were once put on the Internet by radical Muslims.
Wilders only shows Muslims when they behave badly- it’s as black-and-white and unbalanced as a film clip can be.

It verges on racism, too. At first, I didn't think so, but than I gathered that even though Geert Wilders claims that he has nothing against Muslims and merely criticises the Koran, he shows the photograph of a Dutch rapper (Salah Edin) when Mohammed B., the murderer of Theo van Gogh is speaking in Fitna.
That indicates that he doesn’t distinguish between one Muslim and the next.
Edin may take legal action against Wilders, and Wilders would deserve that. I do love free speech but one should accept that one can be held responsible for what one is saying.

Wilders probably also will have to replace the cartoon he used by Kurt Westergaard because of copyright infringement.

Unfortunately, there exists a minority of Westerners who tend to confuse terrorism with Islam. I have been changing my mind a few times about Islam as I gathered more information.
When I think of the many Muslims who are victims of the threat of terrorism- more so than Westerners are- I don’t think it’s justified or fair to generalise.

Wilders’ clip shows that not only Islamic terrorism exists, but also that fanatic Westerners exist. Both ways of thinking need to be eradicated.

Both Muslim leaders as well Western leaders need to openly object to both Muslim and Western fanatics.

Is Islam and democracy compatible? Yes if Muslims are in a minority of the country but when they form the majority, they would throw out democracy and establish Shariah law. They would use the democratic process to get power and after that, put away the democratic process. Minorities would have to be converted to Islam or be killed off as many Hindus experienced in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Less than a year ago, an Islamist party came to power in Turkey. The Muslim leader Erdogan promised that he would uphold the rights of the minorities. But a few months into his Islamic rule and, like 99% of Muslims, he has an Islamic agenda. Turkey is closing down all the pig farms,

“Istanbul's Last Pork Butcher Fights Islamist Crackdown on Swine”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=&sid=aC4.f2m9HcDg&refer=news

“The ministry used the food-poisoning scare as an excuse to shut down the pork industry, says Tahsin Yesildere, former head of the Turkish Veterinary Medical Association's Istanbul branch.”

The Hindus have had a long experience with the Muslims who plundered and raped their country. The Hindu rule is, “Never, Never Listen To What The Muslims Say, Watch What They Do”

The film FITNA is the means through which a Dutch politician is telling the world the violent aspects of Islam and, that the violent nature of Muslims is derived from the KORAN.

The film does not utter a word about hating the Muslims but warning non-Muslims against the violence of Islam. There are many scenes of Muslim preachers telling Muslims to hate non-Muslims and use violence.

You can watch the film at the link rather than read the prejudices of Islamic-jihadist-apologist Ruby Hamad about the film.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/.php
(Click on the youtube ones)

Both Hamad and Celivia need to realise that it is the Muslims who are the ones that terrorise Western cities, murdered 3000 over Buddhists in south Thailand, beheaded 3 Christian school girls in Indonesia. What have the Buddhists in the remote villages of Thailand and Indonesian Christians to do with the West? The Muslims are the trouble makers not the West.

Note: The links in my earlier post wasn't working

“Istanbul's Last Pork Butcher Fights Islamist Crackdown on Swine”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aC4.f2m9HcDg&refer=news

“The ministry used the food-poisoning scare as an excuse to shut down the pork industry, says Tahsin Yesildere, former head of the Turkish Veterinary Medical Association's Istanbul branch.”

You can watch the film at the link rather than read the prejudices of Islamic-jihadist-apologist Ruby Hamad about the film.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/191968.php
(Click on the youtube ones